Hi Guys

I really need help on this.

Since I first got the engine to fire up I have had no oil pressure what so ever. I ahve done as instructed in the Haynes manual and taken the oil pump off and packed it with Vaseline 3 times, I have filled the filter and uses a squeezy bottle to force oil into the pump then getting the filter on quickly and cranking it but still no joy.

That is 10 hours solid trying to get that to work now and I am absoultely at my wits end...

Can anyone help please?

Thanks

Mark

How is the oil pump driven on the RV8? I made up an attachment and spun the pump up with an electric drill until the oil pressure light went out on the pinto. Not sure if you can do that on the RV8 though?

Have you rebuilt the engine? Did you check all of the bearing clearances while rebuilding? If there is excessive clearance in the mains of big ends you will never get any oil pressure.

David

There is no easy way, other than what you suggested, unless you have a sandwich plate for an oil cooler and can prime it that way?

As above I made a tool to fit in the drill and turn the oil pump via the dizzy hole this method works a lot better than packing with vasaline.. Have not checked if I have got good oil pressure yet but have signs of oil arriving at the rockers. will post a pic of the rod but you can buy them online from rimmer brothers.

There is an oil pressure relief valve (on early v8's not sure about later ones) that is known to stick open, could that be causing it?
Or is the pump just not moving oil?

Cheers

Alex

Hi David

Apparently all of the bearings etc were replaced by the previous owner (who gave up part way though the build) and I have all of his recipts and the bearings were on there so I do believe that.

The oil pump is driven by the dizzy and I think I weld the drive gear (not the sprocket though) to a rod and give the oil pump a good spin up with an electric drill as you suggest - just need to get to my dads to get to the welder. Will definitely give that a try in the morning.

Nitram

Sandwich plate... I have heard/seen these but not entirely sure what they are... If you think it will help and you can enlighten me as to what to do with it I will give it a go! I'll try nearly anything right now!

Mark.

Hi Alex

I have had the oil pressure relief valve out, cleaned and checked and it runs smoothly in its barrel. With the spink and nut in place the valve moves all the way across so I assume that is all OK.

The pump is pumping all of the vaseline into the oil filter housing but no oil is getting into it.

One thing you have just made me think though is that the oil pickup in the sump might not be in the right place or something stupid like that.... Something else to check in the morning!

Cheers

Mark

Hi Paul

Sorry, missed your reply - not ignoring you

As I replied to David, I think I will take the advise on the tool and try the electric drill approach in the morning.

Mark

If you pluck out the distributor you can see the you can see the top of the oil pump drive.

Get a bit of tube, bash the end oval so that it will engage with the oil pump drive, other in end your electric drill and spin the bugger until you get oil flowing.

When its starts to pump the drill will slow.

Although its best to pack with vaseline I have managed to get them working by unscrewing the oil pressure sender, pouring in some oil in the hole (1 litre oil bottle with flexi hose end) , put the sender back and try again.

Because the drill will spin the pump so quickly it will draw oil up more easily.

Regards Mark

anothe method i use is to drop the sump and using an old pickup pipe with the strainer cut off ,piece of pipe and a diesel hand primer from an oldish diesel citroen/peugot ,a coupleof litres of 5/30 oil and push the oil round the curciut by hand until you can see it dribble down the pushrods. if you take the pump gears out and the cover and base of the pump housing are scored you might have problems priming as the presssure on the early dizzy driven pumps is pretty crap compared to the gear driven pumps on the later engines

One thing to check is that the pick up pipe is correctly installed.
I rebuilt a V8 rover engine about 20 years ago and seem to remember that the pick up was sucking in air.

I made a priming tool for the rv8 out of a bit of 8mm ish rod (the donor sierra's bonnet stay), cut a slot in one end to engage the oil pump.

took the dizzy off and used a cordless drill, primed it from a completely dry engine in that way. took maybe 20 sec of whizzing before it started shoving oil.

[Edited on 17/3/07 by blueshift]

Ditto, check the pick up pipe, I had a RV8 in a Dax Rush and had loads of oil pressure issues
Main one was there was air getting in at the join between the pick up & the block, once removed, cleaned up & new gasket fitted all was well.

You can get problems with the PRV sticking, best solution is to bin the STD pump body and fit a mocal remote take off, not very locost tho

Ash

One method I have heard of, used on the a series engine where you can't get to the pump, is to fill the engine to the brim with oil eliminating air in theory. Haven't ever tried it but easier than a strip down usually the drill trick works to be fair.

The Rover manual says vasseline in the oil pump, then spin up the pump with a rod in a drill via the hole where the Dizzy goes in. (Special Rover tool)
I used an old Dizzy bottom end welded to a long bolt stuck in my leccy drill. That worked very well.

I also filled the oil filter with as much oil as I could without spilling it. (I do this on all oil changes as well).

Do NOT crank the engine over untill you have raised oil pressure / primed the system.

Not missing the basics How do you know you have no oil presure.

Have you tried a new oil presure switch.

I use a home made primer on my drill ( make sure you are going the right way ) i Keep going until oil osses out of the rocker posts.

Checked with a known sender and calibrated gauge. who's gauges / senders are you using

Regards

Agriv8

If the oil pump is pumping the vaseline into the filter then the pump is working . Would suspect air leak into pick up, oil level not covering pick up, blocked pick up or possibly no pick up fitted?

Check out www.v-8.org.uk . They are very helpful and will no doubt sort you out.

as ^^^^ daid, how are you measuring oil pressure?

can the sender wiring be bad or sender itself not working?

is there any oil going round at all? you should see by removing the rocker covers.
a stuck pressure valve may give you high pressure but in I would have thought you'd still get some oil flowing to the top. Ypuld get low pressure if the bearing clearances are too big as with a worn engine.

now since you say the vaseline is being moved out of the pump but no oil is in there it look very much like a pick up problem.

bear in mind that vaseline is a sem-solid so will be easier for the gears to hold than a liquid such as oil so although it looks good, one cannot rule out oil pump problem.

you need to remove sump and look at the pick up.

a quicke test would be to put a similar size tube in connected to a hose that sits in a bucket of oil then whizz the engine over; if oil is flowing then it is you pick up for sure.

noew to the tool; you can muy these, gort both the early p5/p6 pumps and later sd1 type (they have different dirves) from rimmer brotheres but that is not low cost.

I made my own pump - a solid rod with slot cut in and then a tube over the end so that the drive will not slip out - could post a photo but I am on dial up so slow so can't.

You are welcome to vborrow my drive assuming you have later sd1 type drive.

Use a cordless drill on the lowe speed seetting to which the oil pump - oncvce the pump primes, the reaction may rip a fast spinning drill out of your hands so be careful.

I used the vaeseline and tool to good effect - worked 1st time - you can hear the oil hissing out from mthe rockers once done.

Thanks for all you help and suggestions.

I think first job in the morning is to take one/both of the rocker covers off and try priming the pump with an electric drill and see whether any oil comes though doing that, if that fails, off with the sump!

I have a spare oil pump drive gear (off old dizzy) and some rod that I can use to make a priming tool but thanks to 02GF74 for the offer.

In answer to agriv8 I am using ETB gauges and senders (and I have a new sender and adapter that I got from them last week) so all should be good with that. If I disconnect the sender cable and turn the ignition on the gauge slowly raises to the 90PSi needle so I know the Gauge works. I will however double check by connecting my multimeter to the oil pressure switch to see if that changes state at all.

I will let everyone know how I get on tomorrow - fingers crossed!

Mark

The oil pressure switch is a 3 prong one with N/O and N/C terminals. This used to be a cause of the engine failing to start as it fed the ignition. No oil pressure, then no start/running.
Try a ohmmeter or continuity tester on this if you have this switch fitted, instead of your dash gauges.


[Edited on 17/3/2007 by nitram38]

good luck.

If you are under the car and can get access to a camera post up a photo of where you have your senders in the oil pump base.

dont count out the fact that you may have a dodgy sender I had an iffy VDO one that caused me engine builders dobts.

I hope tomorow that I have finally bottomed my efi coil packs firing at the right time in the right order. v8's just have too many damd cylindars.

You will know if its pumping oil, the drag is huge on the drill once it starts pumping, oil pumps can suck up to 8bhp on some engines.

Vaseline is used as it disolves in oil and melts, grease is not used as this can remain solid and block things up !

But then as above, the pickup does have stupid little gasket where it bolts to the block, little leak here and its sump off time.

The way I primed mine (bear in mind I have a remote filter), was to disconnect both end of filter lines (filter mounted near top of chassis), and fill with oil. Reconnect to filter in/out ports.

Worked for me.

ATB

Simon

Update:

Used the bashed tubing tool as suggested by Mark and it worked a treat. After a few seconds I felt it "tighten up" and the oil light went out and the gauge gently raised to 30psi where it seemed to stop. Kept the drill going for a bit until I could see oil slowly forming on the rockers so I know oil ws getting through.

Put the dizzy back in and fired it up again and the gauge lifts to *just* above 0psi and the light stays on...

Any more suggestions or is this sounding like an engine rebuild is in order? (I really hope not!)

Mark

MMMmmmmmm,

So you are circulating oil which is good,

but no oil presure in not good. when you have been taking the base plate of ( to pack with vasaline )

How scored is the base ?
How scored are the edge of the gears ?
How scored is the edge of the chamber ?

What oil are you using ?

was the engine knocking when running ?

Regards

Agriv8

I still suspect a poor seal between the pick up pipe and block.
The oil is probably draining back to the sump instead of remaining in the pump.

The base was slightly scored. You could feel it with the tip of your finger but it didn't seem to bad to me (but then to whichever of Newton's laws the pump works by it may be be the grand canyon!) The gears themselves looked unblemished. The pressure relief valve was blackened but did appear to move freely in its chamber.

The oil I am using is 15/40 mineral oil as advised by my friendly neigbourhood motor factors. I am getting the impression from reading on that using good high grade oil is BAD in these engines... Should I dumpt that ad go for some nice thick 20/50 semi-synthetic do you think?

The other bit that worried me was that when I was using the drill and showing 30psi oil pressure there was only a few small drips of oil coming out of the rockers arm which again I assumed was correct. I have since been told there should be a torrent flowing out of there. Is that correct or give any more clues?

When I ran the engine up again later on today (after running through the drill priming etc. with my dad) I did notice that the oil pressure switch had reached pressure as the fuel pump kept running. The oil light didn't go out and the gauge moved to about 0.5psi. I am trying to get hold of a mechanical gauge to test the pressure. - as a note, while it was running we couldn't see any oil flow in the rocker covers (through the oil filler) but again I am not sure if it should drip or flow through.

I will also drop the sump off tomorrow night and check the oil pickup. I can see exactly where nitram is coming from with his suggestion of a dodgy seal to the sump. It is definitely worth checking out.

Cheers again for the advice!

Mark

I'm just about to do this so all this information has been useful for me.

I don't have much to add, but here are a couple of points that might help.

Real Steel recommended I used 15/50 oil in my engine (a standard 3.5 litre engine from the early 1970s).

I was talking to ETB about getting some adaptors to use their sensors on the engine and they mentioned that the oil pressure sensor they supplied with my Digidash switches at 7.5 psi.

Not sure if that's any help but I thought I'd share it just in case.

Right someone will be allong to put me right on this but the way i see it the higher you oil presure the more oil you should have ooozing from you rockers.

As after the oil pump it goes main bearing, then big end bearings. then up to your cam bearings. then up to your rocker cover shafts.

As for your oil I am running 15/40 halfrods red stuff as I am still running in the 4.2 in. plan to move to synth in a couple of 100 miles millners or valvoline probably.

Big end shells and crank bearings are cheep.

What front cover are you using ? the p5 had a smaller oil pump than the SD1 / range rover.

fire some photos's up of your base plate if you can.

regards

ariv8

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paradoxia0

Used the bashed tubing tool as suggested by Mark and it worked a treat. After a few seconds I felt it "tighten up" and the oil light went out and the gauge gently raised to 30psi where it seemed to stop. Kept the drill going for a bit until I could see oil slowly forming on the rockers so I know oil ws getting through.

Put the dizzy back in and fired it up again and the gauge lifts to *just* above 0psi and the light stays on...

---

When changing the dizzy on a mates rangie recently, I remeber it beign a bit of a sod to get to sit down fully on the drive dog for the oil pump. Are you sure yours is engaging enough to turn the pump round? Are there two (or more) sorts of dog, that could be preventing it from turning? The pump you now know to work, it's just not getting drive from the dizzy.

I am 99% certaing the dizzy is engaging with the oil pump dirve because if you don't get them aligned properly the dizzy sits about 10mm off it seat. I will confirm it is engaging properly tomorrow night when I get back out there by taking the pump off and checking the gears turn.

I have also ordered a new sump gasket and oil pickup gasket incase it is the pickup leaking air at the seal to the block and nitram suggested.

Mark

From the symptoms you've described, I wouldn't expect a bottom end air leak as you can spin it on a drill.

Out of box question, but is your gauge electrical or mechanical? Electrical ones are notorious for misreading with a bad / poor earth.

I now have a mechanical one that I can plumb into the system to verify the electrical readings...

Hiya

It is an electrical gauge. Aparently my dad has a mechanical one somewhere I can borrow so was going to grab that this afternoon to try it with tonight

Do you intend using a remote kit? If so do you have it fitted yet?

I too used an electric drill to prime my v8, If you have a variable speed drill you could see if you can run it very slowly and see if the pressure remains, thus emulating engine turn over speed.

If it does the fault points towards the drive from the dizzy. Have you observed the dizzy turning when turning the engine over?

Keep plugging away

Cheers

Well I have and update on the problem. We now know exactly what it is...

The crankshaft and crankshaft bearings are totally f***ed

Aparently the crank will need to be reground and basically a full strip and rebuild so there goes my chances of getting on the road in before June

Thanks for all your help guys.

Mark

Nah.

What speck engine are you 3.5 ?.

I have the block and crank from my erm SVA engine. just up the Road in Bradford. Is was rebult with new bearings Crank and pistons and gave good if not excelent oil presure.

If 3.9 just use the crank and shells with your pistons.


there are A few minor scores on the bores of the 3.5 but very usable

Let me know if you are intrested,

Regards

Agriv8

[Edited on 20/3/07 by Agriv8]

Hi

Yes I am very interested. I am almost feeling hopeful again!

I have U2U'd you my details.

Mark

anybody want to theorise why there was oil pressure when driving the oil pump by drill and none when engine running?

I'll start.

When engine is not running, the crank will be resting on the mains caps. Now the crank journals are drilled with oil passages and some of those will be blocked off as they rest on the mains.

Those that face the top will allow oil through the gap between the journal and the top bearing. Statistically 1/2 will do that.

With the engine running the crank turns thus the drillings are less likely to be blocked since 1/2 the time they point down, the other up. Mo resistance to oil flow = no oil pressure. There probably is not enough oil pressure to lift the crank off the caps to "seal" the drillings when they are facing upwards.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 02GF74
anybody want to theorise why there was oil pressure when driving the oil pump by drill and none when engine running?

---

Just as an update (as I am now seeing the funny side)...

We stripped the heads off my engine tonight and a mates dad (who is a professional mechanic) came round to offer advice.

The faults we found were:
Crank is over-worn and the main bearing were totally worn out
The pistons have had it
The conrods are a funny colour (due to being excessively hot at some point) so replace them too
The cam is f***ed (asin 2 of the lobes are round )
Heads need skimming (as does the top of the block)
The tappits are worn out
and the rockers are over worn and need replacing too

At that point we gave up

Basically the engine is a total write off...

When I collected it (October last year) I was told they had fully rebuilt it. I cannot deny that it has all been stipped, cleaned, and sprayed, had the heads de-coked, a new timing chain and big end shells but what a waste of time... Either they thought it was good and went to all of the effort before they realised it was scrap or (as I suspect) they had no idea and were planning on running it like that - judging by the fact I have had to re-do virtually everything on the car since I got it.

Thanks for all of the advice on the oil pressure all very helpful stuff, but I have the definitive answer - the reason is you aint gonna get any pressure with an engine that knackered!

Mark

P.S. I am not (too) bitter - it was all good experiance stripping and putting it back together and at least I am now still gettning cam and crank mixed up

yep - not worth proceeding with it when you can get a runner for about £ 50 - warped block, not come across that. :O

hope you didn't pay too much for it - sounds like you've been had.

Sorry to hear about that Mark

Hopefully my engine is a good 'un, runs on a test cradle but rather smoky and uneven.. hoping it's just ignition timing / lack of exhausts.

Best of luck with it fella.