Agriv8
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 09:14 PM |
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MMMmmmmmm,
So you are circulating oil which is good,
but no oil presure in not good. when you have been taking the base plate of ( to pack with vasaline )
How scored is the base ?
How scored are the edge of the gears ?
How scored is the edge of the chamber ?
What oil are you using ?
was the engine knocking when running ?
Regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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nitram38
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 09:19 PM |
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I still suspect a poor seal between the pick up pipe and block.
The oil is probably draining back to the sump instead of remaining in the pump.
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Paradoxia0
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 10:24 PM |
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The base was slightly scored. You could feel it with the tip of your finger but it didn't seem to bad to me (but then to whichever of
Newton's laws the pump works by it may be be the grand canyon!) The gears themselves looked unblemished. The pressure relief valve was blackened
but did appear to move freely in its chamber.
The oil I am using is 15/40 mineral oil as advised by my friendly neigbourhood motor factors. I am getting the impression from reading on that using
good high grade oil is BAD in these engines... Should I dumpt that ad go for some nice thick 20/50 semi-synthetic do you think?
The other bit that worried me was that when I was using the drill and showing 30psi oil pressure there was only a few small drips of oil coming out of
the rockers arm which again I assumed was correct. I have since been told there should be a torrent flowing out of there. Is that correct or give any
more clues?
When I ran the engine up again later on today (after running through the drill priming etc. with my dad) I did notice that the oil pressure switch had
reached pressure as the fuel pump kept running. The oil light didn't go out and the gauge moved to about 0.5psi. I am trying to get hold of a
mechanical gauge to test the pressure. - as a note, while it was running we couldn't see any oil flow in the rocker covers (through the oil
filler) but again I am not sure if it should drip or flow through.
I will also drop the sump off tomorrow night and check the oil pickup. I can see exactly where nitram is coming from with his suggestion of a dodgy
seal to the sump. It is definitely worth checking out.
Cheers again for the advice!
Mark
There is no replacement for displacement...
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gingerpaule
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 10:52 PM |
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I'm just about to do this so all this information has been useful for me.
I don't have much to add, but here are a couple of points that might help.
Real Steel recommended I used 15/50 oil in my engine (a standard 3.5 litre engine from the early 1970s).
I was talking to ETB about getting some adaptors to use their sensors on the engine and they mentioned that the oil pressure sensor they supplied with
my Digidash switches at 7.5 psi.
Not sure if that's any help but I thought I'd share it just in case. 
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Agriv8
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 10:59 PM |
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Right someone will be allong to put me right on this but the way i see it the higher you oil presure the more oil you should have ooozing from you
rockers.
As after the oil pump it goes main bearing, then big end bearings. then up to your cam bearings. then up to your rocker cover shafts.
As for your oil I am running 15/40 halfrods red stuff as I am still running in the 4.2 in. plan to move to synth in a couple of 100 miles millners or
valvoline probably.
Big end shells and crank bearings are cheep.
What front cover are you using ? the p5 had a smaller oil pump than the SD1 / range rover.
fire some photos's up of your base plate if you can.
regards
ariv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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02GF74
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| posted on 19/3/07 at 02:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paradoxia0
Used the bashed tubing tool as suggested by Mark and it worked a treat. After a few seconds I felt it "tighten up" and the oil light went
out and the gauge gently raised to 30psi where it seemed to stop. Kept the drill going for a bit until I could see oil slowly forming on the rockers
so I know oil ws getting through.
Put the dizzy back in and fired it up again and the gauge lifts to *just* above 0psi and the light stays on...
^^^ this is very strange
have you looked at the drive gear on the distributor; the only way I can account for what you are seeing ^^^ is there is a fault here so the
distributor is not tuning the oil pump over.
Oil out of the rockers, pressure guage/oil lamp show working seems to indicate there i nothing worng woth the pump or pickup.
one question - what was rpm of the dirll (use low gear?)
does the oil lamp.guage change when you rev engine?
Is it possible that you are fitting the distributor so that it engages the cam gear but not the oil pump gear????
(don't mean to re-open the synth oil debate but as for oil, 20:50 castrol GTX is about as exotic you need)
[Edited on 19/3/07 by 02GF74]
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DIY Si
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| posted on 19/3/07 at 04:00 PM |
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When changing the dizzy on a mates rangie recently, I remeber it beign a bit of a sod to get to sit down fully on the drive dog for the oil pump. Are
you sure yours is engaging enough to turn the pump round? Are there two (or more) sorts of dog, that could be preventing it from turning? The pump you
now know to work, it's just not getting drive from the dizzy.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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Paradoxia0
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| posted on 19/3/07 at 04:57 PM |
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I am 99% certaing the dizzy is engaging with the oil pump dirve because if you don't get them aligned properly the dizzy sits about 10mm off it
seat. I will confirm it is engaging properly tomorrow night when I get back out there by taking the pump off and checking the gears turn.
I have also ordered a new sump gasket and oil pickup gasket incase it is the pickup leaking air at the seal to the block and nitram suggested.
Mark
There is no replacement for displacement...
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stevebubs
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| posted on 20/3/07 at 12:51 AM |
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From the symptoms you've described, I wouldn't expect a bottom end air leak as you can spin it on a drill.
Out of box question, but is your gauge electrical or mechanical? Electrical ones are notorious for misreading with a bad / poor earth.
I now have a mechanical one that I can plumb into the system to verify the electrical readings...
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Paradoxia0
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| posted on 20/3/07 at 09:20 AM |
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Hiya
It is an electrical gauge. Aparently my dad has a mechanical one somewhere I can borrow so was going to grab that this afternoon to try it with
tonight
There is no replacement for displacement...
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Julian B
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| posted on 20/3/07 at 09:59 PM |
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Do you intend using a remote kit? If so do you have it fitted yet?
I too used an electric drill to prime my v8, If you have a variable speed drill you could see if you can run it very slowly and see if the pressure
remains, thus emulating engine turn over speed.
If it does the fault points towards the drive from the dizzy. Have you observed the dizzy turning when turning the engine over?
Keep plugging away
Cheers
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Paradoxia0
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| posted on 20/3/07 at 11:05 PM |
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Well I have and update on the problem. We now know exactly what it is...
The crankshaft and crankshaft bearings are totally f***ed  
Aparently the crank will need to be reground and basically a full strip and rebuild so there goes my chances of getting on the road in before June
Thanks for all your help guys.
Mark
There is no replacement for displacement...
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Agriv8
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| posted on 20/3/07 at 11:42 PM |
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Nah.
What speck engine are you 3.5 ?.
I have the block and crank from my erm SVA engine. just up the Road in Bradford. Is was rebult with new bearings Crank and pistons and gave good if
not excelent oil presure.
If 3.9 just use the crank and shells with your pistons.
there are A few minor scores on the bores of the 3.5 but very usable
Let me know if you are intrested,
Regards
Agriv8
[Edited on 20/3/07 by Agriv8]
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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Paradoxia0
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 12:01 AM |
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Hi
Yes I am very interested. I am almost feeling hopeful again!
I have U2U'd you my details.
Mark
There is no replacement for displacement...
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02GF74
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 08:12 AM |
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anybody want to theorise why there was oil pressure when driving the oil pump by drill and none when engine running?
I'll start.
When engine is not running, the crank will be resting on the mains caps. Now the crank journals are drilled with oil passages and some of those will
be blocked off as they rest on the mains.
Those that face the top will allow oil through the gap between the journal and the top bearing. Statistically 1/2 will do that.
With the engine running the crank turns thus the drillings are less likely to be blocked since 1/2 the time they point down, the other up. Mo
resistance to oil flow = no oil pressure. There probably is not enough oil pressure to lift the crank off the caps to "seal" the
drillings when they are facing upwards.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 09:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
anybody want to theorise why there was oil pressure when driving the oil pump by drill and none when engine running?
Because the drill was spinning the oil pump faster than the engine was at idle at a guess.
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Paradoxia0
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| posted on 23/3/07 at 12:11 AM |
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Just as an update (as I am now seeing the funny side)...
We stripped the heads off my engine tonight and a mates dad (who is a professional mechanic) came round to offer advice.
The faults we found were:
Crank is over-worn and the main bearing were totally worn out
The pistons have had it
The conrods are a funny colour (due to being excessively hot at some point) so replace them too
The cam is f***ed (asin 2 of the lobes are round  )
Heads need skimming (as does the top of the block)
The tappits are worn out
and the rockers are over worn and need replacing too
At that point we gave up
Basically the engine is a total write off...
When I collected it (October last year) I was told they had fully rebuilt it. I cannot deny that it has all been stipped, cleaned, and sprayed, had
the heads de-coked, a new timing chain and big end shells but what a waste of time... Either they thought it was good and went to all of the effort
before they realised it was scrap or (as I suspect) they had no idea and were planning on running it like that - judging by the fact I have had to
re-do virtually everything on the car since I got it.
Thanks for all of the advice on the oil pressure all very helpful stuff, but I have the definitive answer - the reason is you aint gonna get any
pressure with an engine that knackered!
Mark
P.S. I am not (too) bitter - it was all good experiance stripping and putting it back together and at least I am now still gettning cam and crank
mixed up
There is no replacement for displacement...
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02GF74
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| posted on 23/3/07 at 09:51 AM |
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yep - not worth proceeding with it when you can get a runner for about £ 50 - warped block, not come across that. :O
hope you didn't pay too much for it - sounds like you've been had.
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blueshift
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| posted on 23/3/07 at 01:08 PM |
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Sorry to hear about that Mark
Hopefully my engine is a good 'un, runs on a test cradle but rather smoky and uneven.. hoping it's just ignition timing / lack of
exhausts.
Best of luck with it fella.
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