On the motaleira I wanted an electric reverse. I wired mine so that the reverse starter solenoid cannot be engaged unless the engine was in neutral via a seperate relay.
The main battery lead has been run from the battery at the front of the car via the fia switch (large 25mm cable) and terminates on the reverse starter.
From there the smaller cable goes to the R1 starter solenoid and engine loom feed.
The problem is that although in neutral with the engine running, the engine dies when I engage the reverse.
Anyone know why this is killing the engine? Too high a current?
I thought the alternator would sustain the engine while the battery ran the reverse.
I am thinking of putting another solenoid in the R1 cable so that when the reverse is engaged, it disconnects the battery from the engine.
Will the R1 still run without a battery connected?
I'm also worred about damaging the alternator if the battery is disconnected.

[Edited on 4/4/2009 by nitram38]

Simple test would be to run the starter off a seperate battery, It's a pain i'm sure but lets you know if its a voltage drop, or a wiring issue... If its a voltage drop you may need a "proper" motor controller in there, to smooth that current spike

Another thing you could try is jumping a secondary battery over yours with decent leads, this will reduce the voltage drop as the starter engages...

James

[Edited on 4/4/09 by cloudy]

I think a solenoid disconnecting the engine is the easiest and lighter option!

My worry would be damage to the regulators/ECU over long period, but it would seem the simplest solution... I'd first make sure you are not disconnecting the ECU by accident or something during the reverse pulse!

James

quote:

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Originally posted by cloudy
My worry would be damage to the regulators/ECU over long period, but it would seem the simplest solution... I'd first make sure you are not disconnecting the ECU by accident or something during the reverse pulse!

James

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Does it work if you hold revs on the engine?

adrian

quote:

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Originally posted by adithorp
Does it work if you hold revs on the engine?

adrian

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Sounds like somehow you're back feeding the start inhibit relay and thats killing the engine. If it was just load on the charging system I'd expect it to be ok with revs.

Try the disconecting the relay/circuit you've got in to make it only run in neutral and then try it.

adrian

quote:

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Originally posted by adithorp
Sounds like somehow you're back feeding the start inhibit relay and thats killing the engine. If it was just load on the charging system I'd expect it to be ok with revs.

Try the disconecting the relay/circuit you've got in to make it only run in neutral and then try it.

adrian

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When you energise a stationary electric motor, you are effectively short circuiting the feed until it starts to spin. If the motor is a beefy one, the initial current draw/voltage drop could be quite high which then kills the ECU. I used to have a dodgy battery that would get in a borderline state where cranking the engine caused the ECU to reset.
You might need some sort of soft start to limit the inital draw of the motor until it is spinning.

hi Martin

Don't even think about running your reverse motor with the battery dissconected.

I've used a simular motor to make an electric go-kart, an it used in excess of 200amps.
Not event a decent car alternator will run the sort of power.

A decent battery may help.
I got hold of a Oddessy PC680 (16a/h) which claims 680Amps cold start.
Simular size to a bike battery but twice as heavy.

Martin

I wasn't suggesting disconnecting the battery from the reverse starter. I was suggesting disconnecting the engine electrics from the battery/electric reverse circuit so that the battery supplied the reverse starter only while engaged and the alternator keeps the engine running.
I am using the oddessey 680 battery

Hello again.

When running a alternator the battery acts as a reservoir.
Without it you may well get excessive voltage peaks.
In the old days of points/coil wasn't a problem.
Mordern elctronics if a different ball game.

So isolating the battery for the bike electrics may damage ECU's etc.

It might be worth checking things like your Voltage drop on the battery and if any of the Bikes safety features are being affected, like the neutral.

Could try your setup with the motor disconnected. This will prove if it's a wiring problem or volts drop.

Martin

Not sure what you mean about the motor disconnected?
The engine runs with the reverse off. The reverse works with the engine off.
If I engage reverse with the engine running (neutral gear), the engine dies.
The only other option I can see is a split charge relay and second battery, but that means more weight.

Hi

When I say disconect the motor, I mean to run the reversing system but without power reaching the motor, to see if you relays and switches stops the engine, rather than the power drain from the reverse motor.

As I'm not good at explaining myself in writing, PM me with tel. no. if you still not sure what I mean.

Martin

I can disconnect the main lead to the starter, but leave the solenoid connection on and try it.

Worth a go

Just spoke to Jon at lynx ae who sold me the reverse.
It is definitely a battery capacity issue, plus the cable from the engine loom not going all the way back to the battery (looping off the reverse starter).
He said that it is resetting the ecu and recommended a redtop 30.

so the ecu runs off the same run of cable to the rear as the starter?

What size is this cable?

James

I thought it would be big enough at 25mm, considering that the bike is around 6-10mm.
Mainly it is the battery capacity.
For now I am not bothered. A bigger battery would mean a complete resizing of the alumium tub that contains it and the fusebox.
I am more likely to use it coming out of a parking space so that is easy enough to do before running the engine.

Hi Martin
PC680 spec is

# 680 cranking amps for 5 seconds
# 595 cranking amps for 10 seconds
# 525 cranking amps for 20 seconds
# 17 amp hours
# Short circuit current over 1800A

Odyssey Linky

So , unless you try try to start your engine whilst in reverse it should cope.

I would look at running seperate leads to your battery, one for the starter and reverse and, one and the rest.

Don't forget you car has to run when cranking.

So I think it's likely to be a wiring issue.

Martin

Do you have a multimeter? Easy test is measure the voltage drop at the starter and battery during a stopped/stall condition...

James

As Jon has told me, definitely run seperate cables, but it makes things a bit complicated as I prefer the fia switch (which is midway from the battery to the rear of the car) to kill everything. He has already had this issue, even wired directly, until he fitted a red top 30 (the next size up.
I will sort it after sva as I am less than two weeks away. I'm not sure about changing the battery though as it means major work making space.

I think it's worth you finding what the problem is before chucking new parts at it, there are a loads of things you can do on a tempory basis that'll give you more direction...

It is the voltage drop resetting the ecu.
Looking at batteries £146 for an odyssey one, £178 for a redtop
Another option is a seperate pc680 and split charger just for the reverse.

Personally, I'd just put the reverse system in the bin.... Two batteries in a BEC? Heresy!!

quote:

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Originally posted by cloudy
Personally, I'd just put the reverse system in the bin.... Two batteries in a BEC? Heresy!!

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Don't be so damn lazy! Besides I can push mine back with my foot like a bike without getting out, you probably could too...

James

A 680 should give you a hybrid car in effect, it's a lot of juice.
Mine reverses in paddock (a few metres) when demanded by the scrutineers. The engine is OFF, the motor simply runs on it's own cables (110A) from the puny Red Top 6. The battery will then even start the engine afterwards (and its a race lump).
My Westfield had a 680 as OEM, I asked Westfield why so big, their response simply that they had to cater for people running all the lights, fans and heaven knows what else in the middle of a traffic jam. It's a huge electrical resource.