DarrenW
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 posted on 8/5/06 at 06:46 PM |
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Pinto with electronic ignition problem - Fixed
Interesting problem occured today. Got me baffled at the mo.
Ive got virtually std 2.0 pinto running electronic ignition. Done 1200 miles without incident. Car cut out on me today. I thought it was the carn
overheating problem - i let it all cool down but car wouldnt restart. I got recovered top my mates garage and tried to fix it.
Im getting a spark from the end of the king lead (pulled it off centre of dizzy and checked against engine block). No spark getting to the spark
plugs. I had a problem 2 weeks ago when dizzy cap carbon brush wore away, new cap fixed that but i suspected rotor arm at fault this time. Changed it
for a new one - still nothing. I attached a garage random spark generator box and got it to start so proved the rotor arm was passing power to plugs
(this clever box takes power from battery and connest to centre pin of dizzy - it runs independant of car engine so designed to get you home only).
Any ideas?
I thought immobiliser might be at fault so bypassed it - still nothing at the plugs.
Ive checked that im getting 12V to the amplifier plug and to +ve terminal of coil.
How exactly does the electronic dizzy work? I assume the coil gets 12V feed, dizzy spins and sends signal to amplifer which then tells the coil when
to send a spark????
I also thought that if im getting a spark to the dizzy then the spark should pass to the plugs OK?
If the amp fails would this cause an instant stop or would you expect it to start missing and gradually get worse?
Avid readers may recall i have suspected heat soak under bonnet has caused fuel vaporisation - now im not so sure. However the difference today is
that it wouldnt restart at all.
See attached link. http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=18515
I have dizzy A and amp A. I wired as per James diagram on page 3. As said i have ran successfully for 1200 miles with no problems and now it just cut
out. Dizzy and amp were brand new when installed - not scrap yard finds.
Im puzzled. Will need to pull dash forward and trace wires better. I cant do anything till Weds night when i return from travelling.
[Edited on 11/5/06 by DarrenW]
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 8/5/06 at 06:53 PM |
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could be dodgy king lead if cap and rotor are both ok
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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russbost
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| posted on 8/5/06 at 06:55 PM |
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You say you've got a spark from the king lead - hold the lead away from earth by about 5mm & crank the engine. If the electronic ign is
working properly the spark should easily jump this gap. If the spark is jumping a gap this sort of size then you're wasting your time looking
for problems further back in the system, the problem would have to be between the king lead & the plugs ie cap, rotor or leads, although in which
case I'm surprised you got it going with the garages "box of sparks". If the spark won't jump that sort of gap but has a
weaker spark I would suspect the coil, usually (tho not always) if the electronic ign packs up you get no spark at all rather than a weak one.
Let me know the results from above & I'll try to help further.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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flak monkey
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| posted on 8/5/06 at 06:55 PM |
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Theres just a proximity/hall effect sensor in the electronic dizzy which sends a pulse to the module to tell it when to fire a spark.
I would suspect the module rather than the dizzy as the sensors in those are pretty hardy.
I have got a spare electronic dizzy at home somewhere, think its the wrong one though...
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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DarrenW
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| posted on 8/5/06 at 06:56 PM |
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i fitted a brand new king lead about 200 miles ago at same time as replacing the dizzy cap. Im not saying it is OK though. i do get a spark from it
when testing to earth. What i dont know is if it is strong enough.
When testing resistance of a rotor arm should it be close to zero ohms or do they have something fitted between the end and where dizzy cap contacts?
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DarrenW
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| posted on 8/5/06 at 06:59 PM |
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It could be coil. It is 2nd hand from unkown origin. Iam not 100% sure it is correct electronic type although it has been running well for quite a
while now. Do coils tend to fail instantly or could it have got damaged by underbonnet temps? I wonder if it may have been coil failure or similar
that i have been experiencing when i thought it was fuel vaporisation?
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dave r
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| posted on 8/5/06 at 07:53 PM |
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i had similar problems, turned out to be either the coil or the dizzy connector, dunno which as swapped both together, hasnt missed a beat since
the plug i swapped for a couple of bullet connectors
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caber
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| posted on 8/5/06 at 09:51 PM |
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Where did you get dizzy cap and how much did you pay for it? if it was a cheapie from Halfrauds or elsewhere it could be crap, they last a little
while then totally break down particularly if you have a good elctronic set up pumping out mucho volts. Same with rotor arms really. Leads also break
down after a while and if you are getting un traceable faults change the lot. With the coil check the resistance cold and check again hot it should be
about the same either about 1.5 Ohms for a ballast resistor set up or 3.5 Ohms for a 12V coil. any other problems and you should think about replacing
the electronic ignition amplifier. This is possibly the most termperature sensitive part and prone to mysterious faults when it is hot.
Good luck
Caber
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DarrenW
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| posted on 8/5/06 at 10:48 PM |
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Thanks for help. Im travelling for next 2 days so might not see further replies.
Ill try and get another coil.
I dont want to replace too much as a just in case cos i will soon be fitting megajolt. Im keen to get car running again so i have dizzy set up to sell
on.
If iam getting spark from end of King lead does this suggest electronic bits are Ok??? Im sure if the amplifier or dizzy was at fault i woulnt get a
spark from King lead. I seem to think that fault therefore lies with coil not creating strong enough spark (It was sunny when i checked today, spark
jumped a 3 or mm gap (estimated) or perhaps battery not now charged enough.
As said before i get spark from end of King lead and also car fires up with fancy spark generator box (i think it is called an EIS unit). It basically
supplies spark to the dizzy which isnt timed to the engine as a limp home device. + and - to battery and connect its king lead to dizzy.
New dizzy cap was cheap aftermarket unit, as is rotor arm i got today. Why do they fail?
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02GF74
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| posted on 9/5/06 at 09:20 AM |
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how about pulling a lead off a sprk plug, fitting a spark plug into the end or a screwm driver and hold near to engine earth (obvioulsy with
screwdriver you hold the handle )
that would rule out cap and ignition leads?
re: electornics - if they go bad they can fail completely (good as easy to diagnose), work intermittently or work below par, the last two being harder
to diagnose.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 9/5/06 at 01:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
how about pulling a lead off a sprk plug, fitting a spark plug into the end or a screwm driver and hold near to engine earth (obvioulsy with
screwdriver you hold the handle )
that would rule out cap and ignition leads?
re: electornics - if they go bad they can fail completely (good as easy to diagnose), work intermittently or work below par, the last two being harder
to diagnose.
i already did that. That is one of the first basic checks. Ive got spark to the dizzy, cap and rotor arm brand new, no spark at plugs. Spark generator
box got car running so that proved the rotor arm and cap are working.
Ive just borrwed replacement ignition module and coil so will try these when i get back. Ill also check out the wiring in case a fault has happened
here. I kind of thought that if i was getting power through to king lead then that proves electronic ignition is working however i cannot be sure the
coil is delivering a strong enough spark - hence borrowing some replacement parts to try.
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russbost
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| posted on 9/5/06 at 05:39 PM |
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quote:
When testing resistance of a rotor arm should it be close to zero ohms or do they have something fitted between the end and where dizzy cap contacts?
Rotor has built in resistance normally about 5k ohms
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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DarrenW
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| posted on 11/5/06 at 10:06 AM |
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Thanks Russ - that piece of data has just given me an idea......
Coil could be giving a weak spark that looks good when earthing the King lead against chassis but not good enough to overcome the rotor arm and coil
lead resistance. This also explains why the EIS box of tricks gave me a spark at the plugs.
Rotor arm resistance - is that just for suppression purposes???? What would stop me modifying it so it no longer has a resistor built in? (I can thing
of the obvious potential for burning the coil out more often due to maybe stronger spark, it may also affect my £25K ICE installation by stopping the
HD plasma screen from recieving the wireless DVD signal correctly but what else?)
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DarrenW
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| posted on 11/5/06 at 10:56 PM |
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Looks like ive sussed it. Changed the coil and amp one at a time and it looks like they had both failed!
James - if you read this U2U me and ill tell you of a slight change to your amp wiring (spare unconnected wire connected to ignition live).
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