RazMan
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| posted on 25/3/07 at 10:02 PM |
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LEDs can shrink your alternator!
It just occurred to me that, now that I have replaced my car's conventional bulbs with LEDs the current consumption has dropped by about 10 Amps
which might be useful info for BECs using the original bike alternators.
So you have (worst case scenario):
4 x 21W + 2 x 5W Hazards
2 x 5W Tail lights
2 x 5W Side Lights
2 x 21W Brake Lights
2 x 21W Fog Lights
Total = 278Watts = 23 Amps
My LED equivalents are approximately 30 Watts - less than 3 Amps
20Amp saving
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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jlparsons
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| posted on 25/3/07 at 10:04 PM |
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Am planning LEDs on my bec - hadn't thought of that. Good point! 
Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during
shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Subject to
approval, terms and conditions apply. Apply only to affected area. For recreational use only. All models over 18 years of age. No user-serviceable
parts inside. Subject to change. As seen on TV. One size fits all. May contain nuts. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Edited for television.
Keep cool; process promptly.
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RazMan
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| posted on 25/3/07 at 10:10 PM |
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These are the little beauties - much, much brighter than earlier versions and the ONLY ones I have found which are not invisible in bright
sunlight.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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jlparsons
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| posted on 25/3/07 at 10:16 PM |
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These are your side lights right?
I'm planning on using the car builder solutions rear led clusters and regular 7 fronts, maybe a high level led brake strip on the roll hoop.
Have any of the manufacturers managed led driving lights yet i wonder? I know luxeon have managed some crazy bright leds but still daft price i
think?
Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during
shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Subject to
approval, terms and conditions apply. Apply only to affected area. For recreational use only. All models over 18 years of age. No user-serviceable
parts inside. Subject to change. As seen on TV. One size fits all. May contain nuts. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Edited for television.
Keep cool; process promptly.
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 25/3/07 at 10:16 PM |
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From? Come on RazMan, don't be coy.
I seem to remember that Audi are reported to be using LED headlights on the new TT.
[Edited on 25/3/07 by Confused but excited.]
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 25/3/07 at 10:23 PM |
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Good thought RazMan,
The real numbers are a little less favourable.
Indicators only have a 50% duty cycle (half on, half off). And although hazards excepted, normally only one side or another.
Also brake lights can't be on more than about 10% of the time
Also 1 fog light is as much as is needed, you can leave a bulb out of one if you have fitted it.
So recalculating I get:
(2X21W + 5W) * 50% Indicators (one side at a time) 24
2 * 5W tail 10
2 * 5W side 10
2 * 21W brake lights * 10% 4.2
1 * 21W fog 21
I get a total of
70W or 6A for filament bulbs. You are right LED's are almost nothing (which also has implications for use of thinner and lighter wiring).
Obviously, you lose the power benefit with the indicators if you have to use the high power resistors required to get some flashers working
properly.
Its some amps in the right direction though, and may be useful if you have to use an electric water pump and drive at night (as headlights are the big
draw at 55W per side). If you also get stuck in traffic (high brake light usage, and fan coming on) and its foggy, then maybe a BEC isn't the
right car for you ;-)
Interesting for those who find they don't have enough amps.
Matt
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RazMan
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| posted on 25/3/07 at 10:26 PM |
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The ones I have pictured are actually my indicators but the same assembly applies to the stop/tail & fog lights. They are basically 3 x 1Watt
Luxeon Stars pointing outwards plus 24 conventional LEDs pointing radially (to make use of the reflector)
I get them from eBay and they are not as expensive as you might think - roughly a fiver each.
Check out the supplier
h
ere
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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RazMan
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| posted on 25/3/07 at 10:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Obviously, you lose the power benefit with the indicators if you have to use the high power resistors required to get some flashers working
properly.
Not so .... There is no point using the ballast resistors as you will consume just as much current - you must change the flasher unit to an electronic
version
like this and you are talking milliamps.
As I stated, my calculations are a worst case scenario and realistically you wouldn't have all the lights on but I was just trying to
demonstrate that a considerable saving can be made which might just tip the balance between flattening a BEC battery or maintaining a healthy charge
under adverse conditions, or with accessories (radio, extra lights, demisters etc) switched on.
To illustrate further, when I was testing the wiring during installation I often use a 9V battery to check for shorts etc and I was amazed to find
that ALL of the side lights and indicators lit up when I connected my test battery across the battery leads!!
[Edited on 25-3-07 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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blakep82
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| posted on 25/3/07 at 11:29 PM |
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are they E marked? many aren't that i've seen (eg in Halfords) are they good for SVA/MOT?
I know things can be changed after SVA
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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ghuncha
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 04:36 AM |
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and the advantage of this electronic blinker is that it will give the same duty cycle no matter how much load(within the limits) it has, unlike the
normal one which blinks faster if one bulb fuses....
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Mike S
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 07:16 AM |
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I'm with you Razman,
I have gone for all LED lights with the exception of headlights.
Wanted to keep power low as using extended bike loom and standard bike battery.
Changed to electronic flasher which can deal with hazards as well.
Cheers
Mike
There are more horses' asses in this world than there are horses
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Hellfire
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 07:33 AM |
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Trouble is a BEC alternator can't be reduced in size or capacity without major modifications... sorry to urinate on your chips... but it is an
excellent thought.
On a CEC it would obviously be different... as you can replace a large alternator with a smaller/less output version.
LED's will replace all conventional incandescent/HID lamps eventually I predict.
Steve
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nitram38
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 07:41 AM |
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I don't think reducing the bec alternator is why this was discussed, it was to reduce the current load on it and less load means slightly more
bhp.
Remember that less current drain will also mean a better charged battery etc.
I have got all the led bulbs/flasher unit ready except for fog and reverse as these lamp holders are side on and I don't know if enough light
will be produced.
I also think that I may have to use conventional bulbs for sva as none of my leds are marked. Although at my previous sva, not a lamp holder was
taken off!
[Edited on 26/3/2007 by nitram38]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 07:52 AM |
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I got brake & taillight LED's from autosave talk about dim! at least half as bright as normal, useless. I will try the ones you've
used as a bike alt will be a lot easier to fit in my engine bay.
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nitram38
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 07:58 AM |
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Got mine from
ebay
and they are so bright I can't look straight at them.
Make sure you get decent ones as there are lots of cheap inported rubbish out there.
My ones have 24 leds each.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 08:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
I don't think reducing the bec alternator is why this was discussed, it was to reduce the current load on it and less load means slightly more
bhp.
Remember that less current drain will also mean a better charged battery etc.
I have got all the led bulbs/flasher unit ready except for fog and reverse as these lamp holders are side on and I don't know if enough light
will be produced.
I also think that I may have to use conventional bulbs for sva as none of my leds are marked. Although at my previous sva, not a lamp holder was
taken off!
[Edited on 26/3/2007 by nitram38]
I knew there was a catch...
I have a great solution... only drive in the light of day!  Get maximum bhp and you can see without using electric... now there's a green
alternative! I'm surprised Mr Bliar hasn't though of it... sorry that would be Mr B(Cl)own.
Steve
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RazMan
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 08:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
Got mine from eBay and they are so bright I can't look straight at them.
Make sure you get decent ones as there are lots of cheap inported rubbish out there.
My ones have 24 leds each.
I have tried just about all of the so called replacement bulbs and none have impressed me (even those ones) The main problem is the angle of view -
more than a few degrees off and they dissappear in daylight. Those standard LED bulbs are positively dangerous and I had several near misses due to
this fact - following drivers will not see your brake lights
Take my advice and throw them away - if you want some Luxeons to play with I have got a few pairs left and loads of the conventional types which you
can have for postage.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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RazMan
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 08:23 AM |
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E Markings
In my experience, no one has looked at the markings on either bulbs or light units - if they are bright enough they will not get a second glance in
either SVA or MOT test.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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bbwales
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 09:45 AM |
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Hi,
I have been given a set of rear lights (Tail, Stop and indicator) in a round unit approx 3" dia. All LED with built in resistors and my god
they are bright.....one major setback though, there are no E marks on them. They are a new item from America and are being fitted to Fire engines. I
am however being given a certificate of conformity will this be suitable for SVA?
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iank
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 10:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bbwales
Hi,
I have been given a set of rear lights (Tail, Stop and indicator) in a round unit approx 3" dia. All LED with built in resistors and my god
they are bright.....one major setback though, there are no E marks on them. They are a new item from America and are being fitted to Fire engines. I
am however being given a certificate of conformity will this be suitable for SVA?
Yes. The wording in the SVA manual regarding bulbs is clear.
9.1 Section 2 Note 3:
yadda yadda... Lamps not bearing such a mark should emit light of similar brightness.
The mark referred to (in annex 1) is the e mark or a BS number which varies for each type of lamp depending on the colour/brightness required.
It it's dim they will challenge it if it doesn't have a mark, but they won't bother if its as bright as a bulb, though be aware of
the visibility angle requirements (LED's are more directional than bulbs).
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 10:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ghuncha
and the advantage of this electronic blinker is that it will give the same duty cycle no matter how much load(within the limits) it has, unlike the
normal one which blinks faster if one bulb fuses....
Having the flash rate change when a bulb blows is a desirable feature, not one to get rid of!
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BenB
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| posted on 26/3/07 at 11:00 AM |
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I agree re the flasher- the fast flash is the only thing in the past that has alerted me to blown indicator bulbs on the tin-top... obviously me
pre-flight checks aren't what they should be...
Swapping to LEDs seems a of debatable benefit... After all in the worst case scenario of...
So you have (worst case scenario):
4 x 21W + 2 x 5W Hazards
2 x 5W Tail lights
2 x 5W Side Lights
2 x 21W Brake Lights
2 x 21W Fog Lights
You're driving in fog with brakes on and the hazards on..... does a few extra BHP really matter?
For 99% of the time, the only benefit you'll see is 20W of tail and side light.... Okay, you'll gain benefits if you're on the
twisty stuff I suppose....
With only 28A on tap with the ST, I was tempted by LED lamps in order to liberate some current for other duties but 1.8A isn't going to provide
much benefit....
Oh well, each to their own... I'll probably fit some though!!!
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