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Next time you go for a group blat......
pewe - 7/1/12 at 10:05 PM

I post this for general interest/comment.
There are always those who think going for a blat means it's at race - nobody on here of course - but just bear it in mind.
blat aware
Take care out there.
Cheers, Pewe 10

JoelP - 7/1/12 at 10:21 PM

I suspect the jury would have binned this one anyway, it always seemed over the top to me. Thoughts with the families of those who died.

And really, dawn raids were bang out of order. They could have just knocked on the door. There were probably kids in some of those houses.

[Edited on 7/1/12 by JoelP]

Ninehigh - 7/1/12 at 11:21 PM

I'm curious as to how they got charged in the first place, I mean did they really think those 5 rammed him into the car?

owelly - 8/1/12 at 12:04 AM

I remember the case from Motor Cycle News. It would have opened the flood gates for any incidents involving groups travelling together, be it a group of motorbikes, cars, convoy of trucks, pedal bikes etc. It is still possible to be charged with all sorts of offences, such as dangerous driving, causing death by DD, etc. even if you had no involvement, other than to be 'with' the group.
The test case I recall was where four bikers succesfully passed a slow moving lorry but the fifth one didn't. He passed the lorry but had to speed up to complete the pass before he collided with a vehicle coming the other way. Then he was going too fast to make the next bend and came off.
All five were charged with dangerous driving. The judge agreed with the CPS in that all the bikers had contributed to the accident but couldn't prove that the accident wouldn't have happened if the four that didn't tumble off, weren't there. If the BiB had done a bit more homework, all five would have been convicted.

daviep - 8/1/12 at 12:12 AM

quote:
Originally posted by owelly
If the BiB had done a bit more homework, all five would have been convicted.


Please explain how any amount of homework could ever make the mis-judgement of an individual somebody else's fault?

Davie

Rod Ends - 8/1/12 at 01:05 AM

Anarcho-tyranny in the U.K.

coyoteboy - 8/1/12 at 03:04 AM

quote:

All five were charged with dangerous driving. The judge agreed with the CPS in that all the bikers had contributed to the accident but couldn't prove that the accident wouldn't have happened if the four that didn't tumble off, weren't there. If the BiB had done a bit more homework, all five would have been convicted.


What utter tosh on the Judges part - how the hell can anyone be at fault for someone else committing to an impossible overtake?! One of the first things you're taught when learning to drive is dont just follow someone else, you have to make the assessment yourself as things could have changed and your vehicle might be different to the other persons. This sort of rubbish needs highlighting and blasting for the guff it is.

Ninehigh - 8/1/12 at 03:07 AM

Lets face it they did this in school, did anyone NOT get the line:
"If he jumped off a cliff would you do it too?"

gazza285 - 8/1/12 at 03:54 AM

I have been watching this one with interest, Helen (one of the deceased) was my first serious girlfriend, and as they say "The first cut is the deepest", she was a lovely girl and I can only give my condolences to her family who I know loved her very much.

End of the day, the whole group will have a heavy weight on their souls, whether they were riding like idiots or not, but the public persecution will not have saved anybody, nor will the failed prosecution.

stevegough - 8/1/12 at 05:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Lets face it they did this in school, did anyone NOT get the line:
"If he jumped off a cliff would you do it too?"



Remember 'Lemmings' ??


owelly - 8/1/12 at 09:10 AM

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/five-bikers-charged-over-group-riding-deaths/17515.html

http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/bikers4.html

http://www.gl1800.org.uk/goldwing-ownership/legal-responsibilities-of-a-group-ride-leader/

Common sense or logic has nothing to do with our laws!!

perksy - 8/1/12 at 09:28 AM

As far as groups of Kit cars is concerned

A few years ago when i was a WSCC area organiser, we were advised that if you had any more than 12 cars
in a group you should really make contact with the relevent police in the area you were travelling in/through

We had runs where we had alot more than that so we spilt the groups up into smaller numbers and
sent them off with a time gap inbetween them

ashg - 8/1/12 at 09:48 AM

for skcc we usually split into smaller packs with pack leaders when there are 20-30 of us everyone has itn's of the route on their tomtom's so there is no need for silly maneuvers to keep up with the group.

i have been out on runs in the past where the group in front and have all overtaken and i have held back because i was unsure if i could make it. usually i would have been fine but on the odd occasion it could have ended badly if i had gone for it. at the end of the day im driving my car and although driving with the group anything i do is my own independent decision, im not going to follow the pack into a blind corner/overtake if i dont think its safe.

wylliezx9r - 8/1/12 at 10:09 AM

This is the problem with modern society that something is always somebody elses fault. Why isn't it just the fault of the rider? He pulled the throttle back, he choose to go around the car. Nobody forced him im sure.

My heart goes out to the family and its a terrible tradgedy but the law/people need to be realistic, it isn't always somebodys fault!

[Edited on 8/1/12 by wylliezx9r]

bi22le - 8/1/12 at 12:18 PM

I have also been out in group riders and have felt 'that' pressure to overtake to keep up because I did not have the navi. One of the times it took me soo long to overtake that I completly lost the group. I ended up turning around and going home. I missed out on the 'group blat' but made my own one on the way home. TBH I felt alot more comfortable driving at my pace and that experience has put me off slightly on going on others.

I have since made sure I have .itn files before we leave and just make the drive my own and not a matter of staying in pack or keeping up.

Real shame about the OP story in the link. I have never heard of this and it sickens me slightly to think that the police wanted to prosecute people that were obviosly their friends and never wanted this to happen. Ill be more careful next time I go to the park with my friends. If something happens it could be my fault regardless of situation!

Biz

smart51 - 8/1/12 at 12:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
One of the times it took me soo long to overtake that I completly lost the group


We always used the rule, if you can't see the car behind you, slow down. If you still can't see them, stop. If you still can't see them, turn back.

Mark Allanson - 8/1/12 at 02:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by owelly
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/five-bikers-charged-over-group-riding-deaths/17515.html

http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/bikers4.html

http://www.gl1800.org.uk/goldwing-ownership/legal-responsibilities-of-a-group-ride-leader/

Common sense or logic has nothing to do with our laws!!


Exactly, most people confuse Law and Justice, never before in history have the two been further apart, the courts are so full of laws that there is no room for any justice.

coozer - 8/1/12 at 04:37 PM

Why did the fuzz do dawn raids? What on earth would that do concerning driving?

Ninehigh - 8/1/12 at 06:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Why did the fuzz do dawn raids? What on earth would that do concerning driving?


Speed kills
If they were overtaking then they must have been going at a different speed
They were going at a different speed just like the other riders so they're all a bunch of genocidal maniacs

At least I imagine that's how some people think