big_wasa
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| posted on 26/1/10 at 07:34 PM |
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When a hobby becomes more than a hobby.
One of my hobbies is auto electrics. I enjoy wiring engines up.
This last year I’ve wired up a few different engine management systems on different engines for a few people.
A local engine builder has seen some of my work and has contacted me to see if I would be interested in doing some work for him.
I did electronics at college but never actually got the qualification due to not handing in enough course work. Stupid as I had passed all the exams
and had some good uni places lined up but that’s another story.
If working at his premises would I need any sort of liability insurance ? Would this require any formal qualifications . It would involve more
expensive cars than I have worked on before and the first being a Lotus.
Any one got any advice and or know where I stand legally ? Any night courses I can do to show competence ?
cheers 
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ian86
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| posted on 26/1/10 at 07:55 PM |
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i would have said that you'd be working for him, ie he is employing you so you would not need insurance. if he wants to employ you with no quals
then it's up to him. don't know any of this for sure but just my thinging. if he is passing the custom onto you so they pay you direct
then insurance and quals would be a must i wouldhave thought. again don't know for sure. i don't think it has to be certified, as
household electrics does? so mabey no special requirement for quals
[Edited on 26/1/10 by ian86]
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RAYLEE29
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| posted on 26/1/10 at 08:00 PM |
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id have thought if hes employing you then its down to him or his insurance.
if your doing it on a self employed basis then it would be down to you.
as for the qualifications its car wiring so is there a law that says you need them like house wiring or in a factory?
if there is then you should be qualified
obviously it will only be a problem if anything goes wrong but i guess thats what insurance is for
have you asked the guy who wants the work done where he stands on this?
thatd be a good place to start
all only my opinion
Ray
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JoelP
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| posted on 26/1/10 at 08:02 PM |
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i would expect that the engine builder would pay you on a per job basis, which would make you self employed in the eyes of HMRC. This being the case,
i would expect you to need public liability insurance, though i doubt you legal have to have it. Speak to an insurance broker, they will know the
details about qualifications.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 26/1/10 at 08:39 PM |
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I'm not an insurance expert but I think you would need indemnity insurance against any advice you gave as an 'expert', causing a
customer a loss of some sort you may also need liability insurance against any injury sustained as a direct consequence of your work (you may be able
to get a policy that covers both. Probably worth taking professional advice.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 26/1/10 at 08:53 PM |
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The wiring regulations do not cover vehicles, and so your certification issue is not applicable to that. There are however, standards that should be
adopted - usually to BS or BSEN. Idont know what these are, or if they apply to vehicle wiring.
As far as insurance, if he employs you and gives you a contract of employment (written or verbal), and pays you directly, then you Should be covered
on his insurance. If not, then its your liability whether professional indemnity or public liability.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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AdrianH
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| posted on 26/1/10 at 09:03 PM |
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Perhaps this can help. Really meant for radio equipment faxes, printers and other comms equipment to be fitted into vehicles. It does not really
cover engine management systems etc as that is normally the manufacturers stuff on cars.
It is a code of practice, was called MPT 1362 now taken on by a semi commercial body and can be found as FCS 1362.
Just stick FCS1362 in the google search bar, it was the first that came back.
Adrian
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
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iank
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| posted on 26/1/10 at 09:14 PM |
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I'd be inclined to get indemnity insurance if I wasn't covered by the engine builder's.
If someone's car goes up in smoke due to an electrical fault (cause by something you touched or not) then someone is quite likely to get sued,
and unless you set up a limited company then it's your house and savings on the line as a sole trader.
Good luck with the new career.
[Edited on 26/1/10 by iank]
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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greglogan
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| posted on 26/1/10 at 10:22 PM |
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I think it depends on wether or not you are employed as a sub-contractor or as a temporary employee. If as a subbie, you would be responsible for your
NI contributions, P.L. insurance etc. If you are employed directly by him, then he is responsible.
Either way, you need to have a conversation with him and deal with these issues before they become issues!!
Greg.
[Edited on 26/1/10 by greglogan]
Women are meant to be loved, not understood.
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skinned knuckles
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| posted on 26/1/10 at 10:30 PM |
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i employ 48 people in an industry that is very litigated against due to malpractice. yet not one of my staff has their own insurance. If you would be
working directly for the garage, then the contract for work carried out is between the customer and the garage owner, who legally has to accept
liability on any work carried out and needs to have public liability insurance to operate legally, completely negating any need for your own insurance
as you cannot litigate against two seperate entities for the same claim.
just as a precaution, never offer yourself as an expert in a subject that you haven't gained a significant qualification in (at least from a
proffesional point of view)
but if a bloke has offered you work based on the abilities he has seen you display, and you accept, then the liability is his is anything goes wrong.
A man isn't complete until he's married, then he's finished
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NS Dev
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| posted on 27/1/10 at 11:46 AM |
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More to the point...who's the engine builder?
Is it Dave Walker at newark engines?
We have a "blanket" motor trade policy that covers fot theft of vehicles, theft of stuff, road risk and public liability plus
"workmanship".
I have no specific qualifications (I'm a degree qualified engineer and I've built a lot of cars but they didn't ask anything about
that) and have cover through Roadrunner trade insurance.
not exactly what you are after, but you don't usually need proof of competence for what you are doing, even if you do need insurance.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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big_wasa
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| posted on 27/1/10 at 05:40 PM |
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hi Nat, no not Dave walker. But if we are name droping  the recomendation came from a guy who works for Radical when I sorted the engine managment
on his jenvey install.
Very early days, all Ive had so far is a five second phone call to say he had been given my number.
The builder in question offers the service but describes on his website as an expensive option.
I get the impression from the call He is wanting to pass the work on that he doesnt want rather than employ me.
I dont think I want to get into insurance and paper work and tax ect.
Will have to see how it pans out.
Thank you all for the above advice 
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