nick205
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| posted on 22/6/12 at 08:44 PM |
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Saw Tooth tyre wear - tintop manufacturers need pulling up big time
I recently posted about (IMO) abnormal tyre wear on the rear tyres of my Passat.....
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=170624
In the above thread, just note the number of different manfacturer's who's cars exhibit the problem.
After further investigation including....
1. Speaking to VW local main dealer
2. 4 wheel alignment at a highly reputable specialist (Micheldever Tyres)
3. Speaking to another known specialist (Balck Boots)
4. Exhaustive internet research including most major forums
......it seems this is a well documented and understood problem with modern cars. particularly those with multi-link independent rear suspension.
To my mind this is a serious issue that manufacturers should be taken to task over for a number of reasons...
(and before anyone mentions it, I know they spend $Billions developing and testing cars - that doesn't mean they're perfect.
They're fully in bed with tyre makers and anyone else who will benefit from consumables)
1. Excessive abnormal tyre wear reduces braking and handling safety - END OF!
2. Excessive abnormal tyre wear that reduces the service life of the tyres means excessive tyre consumption - big eco NO NO!
3. Excessive abnormal tyre wear = excessive road surface wear (don't start spouting about how minimal it is please, there are millions of cars
on the roads) = excessive cost to resurface.
4. excessive abnormal tyre wear translates to extra strain on the rest of the car's suspension system = premature replacement of parts =
excessive cost and eco NO NO!
5. Did cars with beam type rear suspension really handle that badly....? The answer is NO! AND the were almost certainly suffered less road noise
too!
Why has nobody taken the manufacturer's to task....?
I'm that fired up about this I feel a one man crusade coming on. I know it won't work, but hey there's nothing to lose
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Tatey
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| posted on 22/6/12 at 09:02 PM |
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Send a message to VW and the like and ask what they are doing about it and how many warranty returns they have had and how they have corrected the
problem when someone has brought it up. They should quickly get back to you, it could be worthwhile bringing it to the attention of some car magazines
etc to see if you can drum up some more enthusiasm to get the problem sorted.
As a design engineer myself (motorcycles) engineers are more than happy to sort out the problems, its just the money managers who aren't willing
to put the resources into solving the problem so a bit of bad press might be the shove they need.
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myke pocock
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| posted on 22/6/12 at 09:55 PM |
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Interesting one this as I have a 58 plate Citroen Berlingo Multispace and some people have reported unusual rear end handling and excessive tyre wear.
Mine, bought second hand, has one new tyre on the rear for some reason (may have been damage I know) My theory is that as this kind of issue is not
necessarily safety related and that supposedly relatively few people are prepared to complain or accept that it is particularly out of the ordinary
then the manufacturer will accept the bad publicity from a small percentage of people. Remember that we, on this Forum, are probably far more aware of
the minutiae of wear, handling and drivability than Joe Public and his Eurobox.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 22/6/12 at 10:28 PM |
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I am certain that is effect is more down to the tyres than the suspension, and tyres with small tread blocks (and especialy cheap and nasty budget
tyres which have no place on the road anyway IMO) seem to be the most prone.
EDIT: have you read the reviews on http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk for the "Kenda Kaiser"? Amongst the numerous people suggesting these
piles of dung have all the grip of a wet fish, there are several that have also mentioned they make the car sound like a wheel bearing is on
it's way out.
Buy some premium tyres and revel in the new found ability to corner, accelerate and brake in all weather conditions as well being able to waft along
with it sounding like an orbital sander has been left switched on in your boot.
[Edited on 22/6/12 by MikeRJ]
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DRC INDY 7
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| posted on 23/6/12 at 06:37 AM |
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I have seen this on cars before and must admit either cheap tyres or tyre pattern is the cause of this
I have always used the tyres that the vehicle came with on all my cars never had the above problem
only once did i stray and use a different brand (firestone) on my ford focus and they were terrible. factory fit michelins i had on originally were
the perfect set up for this car
https://www.facebook.com/groups/462610273778799/
Puddle Dodgers Club
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me!
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| posted on 23/6/12 at 06:39 AM |
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My old civic type r did this. Apparantly the tolerancing of the upper control arms at the rear wasn't brilliant, so you could get all sorts of
funny camber angles. Positive one side and negative the other is not unheard of! The cure was an aftermarket adjustable arm and a decent alignment
session. Mine wasn't too bad so I never bothered, but it is a very common mod on EP3's.
The tolerance stack up in multi link suspension and the body itself are probably quite large, none of the components are going to be adjustable, and
if they were there is no way VW are going to put the millions of cars they produce annually through alignment rigs. As the cars are proven both
capable and safe as they are, you are not going to get Mr Winterkorn to spend say €20 a car for adjustable bits, and an extra 20 minutes factory time
on 8.3 million vehicles a year. That's a massive investment, and that I'm afraid is why you won't get too far with this, despite how
annoying it is!
Sorry I haven't read the other thread, did you have your car aligned and it's still doing it out of interest? It does seem odd that
alignment alone would cause a saw tooth effect. I suspect there is a few contributing factor to this, like mike says, tyres are probably one of them!
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nick205
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| posted on 23/6/12 at 12:20 PM |
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Experience and research shows cheap tyres accentuate the problem. Highly directional tyres also appear to make it worse so as MikeRJ says the crappy
Kendas I had on the rear were about the worst they could be.
Having had 4x new Dunlop Sport 01s fitted (OEM fitment along with Bridgestone Turanza) and the alignment checked (well within OEM tolerances) and
improved there is still excessive rear tyre noise. Checking the tyres after a run, the inside shoulder is hot, the outside shoulder is cold.
I've had checked (and checked myself) the rear wheel bearings - no issues. I've also had the rear suspension checked on the ramps with me
present - no damage and no decernable (sp?) play.
Local VW/Skoda main dealer knew all about the issue and suggested having the rear camber adjusted out of OEM tolerance to combat the problem!
The level of complaint on this subject VAG related and other forums is considerable and to me indicates an inherent fault in design or lack of
adjustment.
I fully appreciate I won't get VW or any other manufacturer to turn round and say..."Oh no we got it all wrong, let's put it
right". I also know they've put enormous effort into developing these vehicles which are generally safe and reliable. They don't
care about what's been sold, they'll already be 2 models ahead on their development strategy by now.
Doesn't stop me being pissed off though for all the OP reasons, not least the fact I know I'll be replacing rear tyres prematurely and
living with excessive tyre noise
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me!
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| posted on 23/6/12 at 12:43 PM |
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I agree with you, it's definitely annoying! My honda made quite a din when the rears were low.
I wonder if they deliberately added (negative!) camber to the rear to give a touch more understeer perhaps? It will have been a deliberate decision on
their part, possibly to save people who don't know what they are doing from themselves? Tyre wear vs. a reputation for spinning backwards into
hedges will be an easy decision for an OEM. If it is annoying you that much it might be worth investigating the camber adjustment thing? I know you
shouldn't have to, but if you like most other things about the car it may be a small price to pay to solve this issue.
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