AndyW
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:06 PM |
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Furure Classic's and restoration potential
Hello all,
Now Ive been thinking (I know it doesnt happen often but bear with me).
whats the potential for "future" classic and restoration projects? If i look around people are restoring old cars, classics, you know the
kind of thing, jag e type, mk1 escorts, capri's original mini's etc etc etc. These are all cars of 20+ years old and are seen as classics
and lots out there for projects.
But, what does the future hold for the classic and restoration market? I cant see some one in say 20 years posting a new thread about restoring a ford
mondeo or Focus. Or will they?
Will the cars of today with all there electrics and complicated 4 wheel drives and what not, be future classics?
Or are we going to be finding it ever harder to find a true classic old car that is worthy of restortation.
Whats peoples thoughts of cars that will be classics in the future?
What out of todays mass produced car market do we think will be worthy of being called a classic?
Thats my thought anyway, lets see what "locost" world thinks 
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bartonp
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:15 PM |
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Scope for restoring a Sierra out of kit car parts maybe?
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:20 PM |
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You already have a lot of 90s cars being restored and loved - just check out the dedicated forums for VW, vauxhalls and pugs etc. Its not about how
old the cars are really, its about what cars people grew up with. I dont doubt in 15 years time I will have another Nova.
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whitestu
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:22 PM |
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quote:
But, what does the future hold for the classic and restoration market? I cant see some one in say 20 years posting a new thread about restoring a ford
mondeo or Focus. Or will they?
Why not? When I was learning to drive the general view of mk1/2 Escorts was that they were utter crap, and you could barely give Alfasuds away.
Even Allegros have classic status now.
All those people who's first car was a Saxo will be pining for one by the time they are 40!
Stu
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:25 PM |
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What put the kibosh on it was the government removing the tax exemption and classic tax band. Now, only pre-'73 cars will ever be tax exempt
and bona-fide classics.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
What put the kibosh on it was the government removing the tax exemption and classic tax band. Now, only pre-'73 cars will ever be tax exempt
and bona-fide classics.
Rubbish, If i like a car im not gonna let a couple of hundred pounds a year change my decision on which to choose. Ok the tax exempt status is fairer
for old cars that are likely to be less often used, but its makes very little difference in the long term.
What will make diffrence is the scrapage scheme making a huge hole in the number of used cars out there.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
What put the kibosh on it was the government removing the tax exemption and classic tax band. Now, only pre-'73 cars will ever be tax exempt
and bona-fide classics.
Rubbish, If i like a car im not gonna let a couple of hundred pounds a year change my decision on which to choose. Ok the tax exempt status is fairer
for old cars that are likely to be less often used, but its makes very little difference in the long term.
What will make diffrence is the scrapage scheme making a huge hole in the number of used cars out there.
Why is it rubbish? The Status of classic is no longer possible for the cars we drive now to become classics, and as you say, they are all
doomed for destruction if surrendered to the scrappage scheme. The issue isnt the cost of the tax, because as you say, we pay what we need to for the
toys we want, the issue is with these cars being recognised as classics as opposed to scrappage candidates.
ETA: anyway, there no need to get all jumped up about it.
[Edited on 9-2-12 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:53 PM |
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A classic car isnt 'defined' by its tax status! Audi Quattro is considered a bonefide classic, as is Delorean, as is S1 RS Turbo, none of
those are tax exempt.
[Edited on 9/2/12 by loggyboy]
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A classic car isnt 'defined' by its tax status! Audi Quattro is considered a bonefide classic, as is Delorean, as is S1 RS Turbo, none of
those are tax exempt.
[Edited on 9/2/12 by loggyboy]
Ok, but what makes them bona-fide classics? Yes, they have good pedigre, reputation but nowhere in their documentation (other than on the tax
classification) will it say "Classic".
[Edited on 9-2-12 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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britishtrident
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:57 PM |
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Although many look good 90%+ of 1960s - 1970s era classics you see at shows are full of patches and filler and without constant workwill return
to a pile of red oxide. Apart from very very low mileage cars the only exceptions are the very models with separate chassis or replacement body
shells available.
The current generation of cars might fair slightly better because they have better corrosion protection (ie it takes 10 years for major corrosion to
appear rather than 3 or 4) but the downside is they have very complex electronics which are increasingly becoming part of the MOT.
So what to look for ? If you look good low mileage Rover 820 Turbos and 800 coupes can be found for pennies. Some low mileage MG ZTS with
petrol engines are going through the car auctions at very low prices because of the high road tax.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Benzine
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 12:59 PM |
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Some of the newer Alfa Romeos (last 10 years) are too good looking not to become classics in the future. They're the only modern cars
I'd be happy to own.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A classic car isnt 'defined' by its tax status! Audi Quattro is considered a bonefide classic, as is Delorean, as is S1 RS Turbo, none of
those are tax exempt.
[Edited on 9/2/12 by loggyboy]
Ok, but what makes them bona-fide classics? Yes, they have good pedigre, reputation but nowhere in their documentation (other than on the tax
classification) will it say "Classic".
[Edited on 9-2-12 by MakeEverything]
DVLA couldn't even get that right, the taxation class for vehicles constructed before 1 Jan 1973 is 'Historic Vehicle'
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
Ok, but what makes them bona-fide classics? Yes, they have good pedigre, reputation but nowhere in their documentation (other than on the tax
classification) will it say "Classic".
[Edited on 9-2-12 by MakeEverything]
Insurers are willing to recognise any car thats over 10 years old as a classic for their policies. There is no governing body on what makes a classic
- its just opinion!
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
Ok, but what makes them bona-fide classics? Yes, they have good pedigre, reputation but nowhere in their documentation (other than on the tax
classification) will it say "Classic".
[Edited on 9-2-12 by MakeEverything]
Insurers are willing to recognise any car thats over 10 years old as a classic for their policies. There is no governing body on what makes a classic
- its just opinion!
"rubbish". As Pete says, the DVLA classify them as historic vehicles. It's not at all about opinion, just facts. If you were to
sell an antique, it comes with hallmarks or markings (usually). The hallmarks on a car, is the registration and acknowledgement that it is a classic
by the governing body, called the DVLA.
[Edited on 9-2-12 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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britishtrident
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:08 PM |
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Not an ultra low mileage but this will go for about £500 ---- not much above scrap value Road tax is £210 per year.
http://www.intercitymotorauctions.co.uk/stock_new.aspx?lot=238&site=glasgow&salenumber=2904
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
"rubbish". As Pete says, the DVLA classify them as historic vehicles. It's not at all about opinion, just fact.
They define them as historic vehicles to define their tax status, nothing more. They dont decided what a classic is!
Yes any car 20yrs plus is likely to be considered a classic by default, but is a 90's mini in less of a classic than a 60s? in the DVLA eyes
yes, as its post 73, but everyone with eyes knows the mini is classic fullstop, we dont need the DVLA to tell us!
[Edited on 9/2/12 by loggyboy]
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
"rubbish". As Pete says, the DVLA classify them as historic vehicles. It's not at all about opinion, just fact.
The define them as historic vehicles to define their tax status, nothing more. They dont decided what a classic is!
Yes any car 20yrs plus is likely to be considered a classic by default, but is a 90's mini in less of a classic than a 60s? in the DVLA eyes
yes, as its post 73, but everyone with eyes knows the mini is classic fullstop, we dont need the DVLA to tell us!
Want to buy a Rolex?
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
Want to buy a Rolex?
?
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
Want to buy a Rolex?
?
Reference to looking like a classic, but without any paperwork to say it is (or proof). Regardless of how convincing it is, it's still not the
real thing, no matter how many people have the opinion that it is.
Similarly with cars. They have a v5, so the age and make are facts, as identified by DVLA. Pre 73 cars are designated classics by the DVLA on their
taxation class. If not, then it's not a bona-fide classic.
Who would have believed that the reliant robin was a motorcycle unless the DVLA had classified it as one?
ETA: an incredibly bureaucratic way of looking at it, but I didn't set up the DVLA.
[Edited on 9-2-12 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:25 PM |
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Best read these instructions then if you need to be told everything to believe it..
Step 1
breathe in...
Step 2
breathe out..
repeat above steps.
[Edited on 9/2/12 by loggyboy]
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swanny
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:27 PM |
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i thought that the OP's point was more about which cars would become classics in the broader sense rather than a tech ical definition
in that people like them enough to spend significant time restoring them, and also i guess that there are a group of like minded people doing the same
thing.
not really something to be getting knickers in a twist about for me., but an interesting debate.
i'd go with the rover 75 and mgs too. great car, used car of the year several times, undervalued lots of toys, vibrant club scene, rallies etc
and lots of passion aboiut them in the community
paul
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scootz
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:33 PM |
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I often wonder if the Jag XJS will ever be regarded as a true 'classic' (whatever that is  ).
I've always thought it was stunning... particularly in the flesh! I also think that it's major problem was that it wasn't an
E-type, but how the bloody hell do you follow something like that!?
I'd love to strip one right back to a bare shell and either rebuild it with a shiny V12 engine, or perhaps go for a more modern approach and use
running-gear from an XKR instead.
There's an unused 'facelift' shell on ebay just now for £5k... probably be cheaper to buy a late model car for a couple of grand,
strip it, dip it, add some Lister-esque arches and then rebuild using some of the components from the original car.
Stop it Scotty... you're getting carried away... again!
It's Evolution Baby!
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Best read these instructions then if you need to be told everything to believe it..
Step 1
breathe in...
Step 2
breathe out..
repeat above steps.
[Edited on 9/2/12 by loggyboy]
Only if provided by a recognised governing body....
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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blakep82
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:46 PM |
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so if DVLA had never given tax exempt status to any cars we would never have such a thing as classic cars?
i don't buy it.
classic is usually defined by either age (10 years for insurance, but 25 years as far as i'm concerned), or popular opinion. thats it really.
thik the current fiat 500 might be a future classic, corsa b and c are a strong contender too i reckon, bmw e30s are getting that way too
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 9/2/12 at 01:48 PM |
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Classic is impossible to define, it is more of a feeling.
I really wouldn't regard allegro's, marinas as classics, and sierras only the cossie and better still the RS500. It needs something very
special if it a run of the mill car.
I expect MX5's to go down the popular cheap and cheerful classics route, a bit like my spitfires. The convertibles are always a much better bet
too.
Pug 205GTi (not the others in the range) and generally good hot hatches. The focus rs500 should get there, but I am concerned too many of those are
already living in carcoons waiting to go up in value
Had an interesting conversation with a mate of mine, he has owned spitfire,TR3, Stag, RS500 and sold that to release funds, Cossie escort (he regrets
that, said it did nothing for him)and now a cheaper cossie (3 door rather than the less desirable sapphire) but talks of getting a focus RS500. When
asked why, he looked puzzled and replied he needs to think about that. All these cars need to be driven properly, and not seen as investments
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