scimjim
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 11:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by scimjim
The vehicle max towing weight (which as I found out recently, is actually calculated from it's ability to pull away on an incline) is the
manufacturers guide.
have you got any links to quoted figures for this ? - I've never managed to find definate limits for my cars...
it's in the handbooks of any modern - sites like this also show them: http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp or
http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/ford/focus/towing-weight-limit/
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 12:06 PM |
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Yeah the max towing weight on the old rangerovers was quoted as over 4.5T IIRC due to the low range box.
I've almost fallen foul of this law, at no point did I think to check in case I couldn't tow something when I first passed my test (about
a month after the law changed to suit the EU), so I spent a large part of my youth towing a 2T boat (nearly 28ft long on the trailer) about in a
rangerover (single axle) and latterly a 2.3T boat on a double axle homebuilt trailer, and a 30ft caravan. Never had a problem, never got pulled, never
even got glanced at twice on the motorway. Only in later years did I check up (forced by work) and found that I'd been towing illegally for
years.
If I had crashed I've have been pretty much stuffed.
I wrote to my MP to find out why this law and testing was introduced, because the test and instruction appears to do nothing but check the absolute
bare essential skills and knowledge that I'd say were a bare minimum for towing ANY trailer, let alone a large one. They do nothing to prepare
someone for towing a trailer that is a significant percentage of their vehicle mass or significant length. When you see folk battering down the
outside lane with a 250kg garden trailer at 90mph it does make you wonder why everyone isn't forced to take a test, no no-one and simply rely on
the police pulling folk as they do now.
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bi22le
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 12:36 PM |
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What happena if the trailer is home made or has no plate to state MAM?
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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scimjim
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 12:39 PM |
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as long as it was made before 29 Oct 2012 you're okay - except you don't know what it can safely carry 
[Edited on 10/6/13 by scimjim]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 12:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scimjim
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by scimjim
The vehicle max towing weight (which as I found out recently, is actually calculated from it's ability to pull away on an incline) is the
manufacturers guide.
have you got any links to quoted figures for this ? - I've never managed to find definate limits for my cars...
it's in the handbooks of any modern - sites like this also show them: http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp or
http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/ford/focus/towing-weight-limit/
those are far too new for me 
and my old focus (98-01 zetec 1.8) says nothing in the handbook 
(I think get a supplement with the overpriced towbar)
but even when I've seen qouted figures elsewhere its only ever braked limits - any ideas what the unbraked limit would be ?
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scimjim
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 12:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by scimjim
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by scimjim
The vehicle max towing weight (which as I found out recently, is actually calculated from it's ability to pull away on an incline) is the
manufacturers guide.
have you got any links to quoted figures for this ? - I've never managed to find definate limits for my cars...
it's in the handbooks of any modern - sites like this also show them: http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp or
http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/ford/focus/towing-weight-limit/
those are far too new for me
and my old focus (98-01 zetec 1.8) says nothing in the handbook
(I think get a supplement with the overpriced towbar)
but even when I've seen qouted figures elsewhere its only ever braked limits - any ideas what the unbraked limit would be ?
you can imagine the problem I have with a 1968 Scimitar GTE then
This Government website even offers the astounding advice that
"If your VIN plate doesn’t list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing."
The site I linked also shows unbraked limits: http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/ford/focus/towing-capacity/
[Edited on 10/6/13 by scimjim]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 12:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scimjim
you can imagine the problem I have with a 1968 Scimitar GTE then
tell me when you find the answer to this one
I was half thinking about using my 1970 GTE to tow with (if I ever get round to putting it on the road)
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scimjim
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 01:02 PM |
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The law says I can tow up to the kerb weight of the car (never mind what some underpaid and overworked Civil Servant has written on the Gov website).
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bi22le
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 01:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scimjim
The law says I can tow up to the kerb weight of the car (never mind what some underpaid and overworked Civil Servant has written on the Gov website).
I am starting to think that if its over 750kg this is the rule of thumb, especially for our cars and application.
Just as an update now, I am looking into buying a trailer and if this is the case it will be up for hire at a very good LCB price. It will also be
under 750kg with a 550kg car on so can tow on a later B only licence.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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mazie
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 02:53 PM |
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car trailor | eBay
rough but cheap
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mark chandler
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 04:35 PM |
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Car VIN plates did not have to declare a train weight until 1998 (I think it was) so you can do what you like with your GTE, they make very good tow
cars BTW
Which is why I could tow my little car on trailer behind my XK8 as it was produced in 1997, later cars you could not.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 07:56 PM |
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this is all very confusing to me.
i passed my test in 1999
have a volvo s60 D5 which is quoted at 1552 kgs kerb weight
my trailer is a brian james twin axle (both axles braked) clubman with hydraulic tiltbed.
unladen weight 500kgs
max gross 2000kgs
fireblade race fury aprox 450kgs
am i right in thinking the unladen weight (500kg) + kit car (450kg) is ok for me to tow as i have 1552kg kerb on the volvo?
or is it the max gross at 2000kg + 450kg fury +1552kg kerb? as thats over 4000kgs and trailer is over kerb weight!
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scimjim
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 08:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
this is all very confusing to me.
i passed my test in 1999
have a volvo s60 D5 which is quoted at 1552 kgs kerb weight
my trailer is a brian james twin axle (both axles braked) clubman with hydraulic tiltbed.
unladen weight 500kgs
max gross 2000kgs
fireblade race fury aprox 450kgs
am i right in thinking the unladen weight (500kg) + kit car (450kg) is ok for me to tow as i have 1552kg kerb on the volvo?
or is it the max gross at 2000kg + 450kg fury +1552kg kerb? as thats over 4000kgs and trailer is over kerb weight!
trailer max gross is trailer plus load (ie the trailer weighs 500Kg, so can take a 1500Kg load).
so, I think the trailer and load are okay on the car (500+450=less than the cars kerb weight and the 1600kg max towing weight of the Volvo) and
you're okay with your licence (1552 + 500+ 450 = less than 3500Kg total train weight)
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daniel mason
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 08:32 PM |
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thanks.i was worried that the 1552 kerb + the 2000 max gross would be 3552kg!
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phelpsa
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 08:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
thanks.i was worried that the 1552 kerb + the 2000 max gross would be 3552kg!
Unfortunately its max gross vehicle + max gross trailer so you're well over the threshold!
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scimjim
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 08:53 PM |
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bugger - he's right, it's not the weight of the load anymore, it's the plated MAM of the trailer. ie you *could* carry a car
weighing 1500Kg on that trailer but it would exceed the kerb weight of the Volvo, exceed the towing limit of the Volvo and exceed your licence
entitlement - therefore, you're not trusted to only carry a load that would be safe according to the car and trailer manufacturers
[Edited on 10/6/13 by scimjim]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 09:32 PM |
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by 2kg?
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scimjim
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 09:34 PM |
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52kg? Chances are, you'll never get stopped but if you had an accident they'd check - and you'd be uninsured
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daniel mason
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 09:42 PM |
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sorry meant 52kg
but surely th gross of trailer at 2000kgs is 500kgs heavier than cars cerb anyway? even though its 500kg unladen?
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phelpsa
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| posted on 10/6/13 at 10:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
sorry meant 52kg
but surely th gross of trailer at 2000kgs is 500kgs heavier than cars cerb anyway? even though its 500kg unladen?
Firstly, the gross trailer weight is 450kgs more than the unladen weight of the car, so fail on that one.
Secondly, gross vehicle weight is 2050kg for an S60 D5. 2050+2000 = 4050 so you fail on that one.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 11/6/13 at 06:03 AM |
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so how do i get round it then? can you get the trailers re-stamped to say 1350kg - 1400kg si it comes ibn at under 3500kgs?
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scimjim
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| posted on 11/6/13 at 07:28 AM |
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Yes - I was reading up on it last night and apparently it's becoming more popular to derate your existing trailer. You may need to go to Brian
James though?
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phelpsa
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| posted on 11/6/13 at 08:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
so how do i get round it then? can you get the trailers re-stamped to say 1350kg - 1400kg si it comes ibn at under 3500kgs?
You can indeed. Although i'd honestly recommend just taking the test! If you've been towing a while it wont be a challenge and you should
be able to find somewhere that will do a few hours training and the test in one day, then you never have to think about it again!
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 11/6/13 at 09:36 AM |
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quote:
What happena if the trailer is home made or has no plate to state MAM?
It goes off the sum of the tyre load index values - single axle with 450kg tyres = 900Kg.
Removing/replacing plates yourself is, AFAIK, not legal and can only be done by the manufacturer.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 11/6/13 at 09:41 AM |
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in the 1st post it says max 4250 kg , if trailer is max 750 kg ?
i know im ok since i passed in 89 , just seems to be very long winded.....
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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