pewe
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| posted on 7/1/12 at 10:05 PM |
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Next time you go for a group blat......
I post this for general interest/comment.
There are always those who think going for a blat means it's at race - nobody on here of course - but just bear it in mind.
blat
aware
Take care out there.
Cheers, Pewe 10
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/1/12 at 10:21 PM |
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I suspect the jury would have binned this one anyway, it always seemed over the top to me. Thoughts with the families of those who died.
And really, dawn raids were bang out of order. They could have just knocked on the door. There were probably kids in some of those houses.
[Edited on 7/1/12 by JoelP]
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 7/1/12 at 11:21 PM |
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I'm curious as to how they got charged in the first place, I mean did they really think those 5 rammed him into the car?
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owelly
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 12:04 AM |
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I remember the case from Motor Cycle News. It would have opened the flood gates for any incidents involving groups travelling together, be it a group
of motorbikes, cars, convoy of trucks, pedal bikes etc. It is still possible to be charged with all sorts of offences, such as dangerous driving,
causing death by DD, etc. even if you had no involvement, other than to be 'with' the group.
The test case I recall was where four bikers succesfully passed a slow moving lorry but the fifth one didn't. He passed the lorry but had to
speed up to complete the pass before he collided with a vehicle coming the other way. Then he was going too fast to make the next bend and came
off.
All five were charged with dangerous driving. The judge agreed with the CPS in that all the bikers had contributed to the accident but couldn't
prove that the accident wouldn't have happened if the four that didn't tumble off, weren't there. If the BiB had done a bit more
homework, all five would have been convicted.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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daviep
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 12:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly
If the BiB had done a bit more homework, all five would have been convicted.
Please explain how any amount of homework could ever make the mis-judgement of an individual somebody else's fault?
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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Rod Ends
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 posted on 8/1/12 at 01:05 AM |
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Anarcho-tyranny in the U.K.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 03:04 AM |
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quote:
All five were charged with dangerous driving. The judge agreed with the CPS in that all the bikers had contributed to the accident but couldn't
prove that the accident wouldn't have happened if the four that didn't tumble off, weren't there. If the BiB had done a bit more
homework, all five would have been convicted.
What utter tosh on the Judges part - how the hell can anyone be at fault for someone else committing to an impossible overtake?! One of the first
things you're taught when learning to drive is dont just follow someone else, you have to make the assessment yourself as things could have
changed and your vehicle might be different to the other persons. This sort of rubbish needs highlighting and blasting for the guff it is.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 03:07 AM |
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Lets face it they did this in school, did anyone NOT get the line:
"If he jumped off a cliff would you do it too?"
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gazza285
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 03:54 AM |
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I have been watching this one with interest, Helen (one of the deceased) was my first serious girlfriend, and as they say "The first cut is the
deepest", she was a lovely girl and I can only give my condolences to her family who I know loved her very much.
End of the day, the whole group will have a heavy weight on their souls, whether they were riding like idiots or not, but the public persecution will
not have saved anybody, nor will the failed prosecution.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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stevegough
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 05:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Lets face it they did this in school, did anyone NOT get the line:
"If he jumped off a cliff would you do it too?"
Remember 'Lemmings' ??
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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owelly
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 09:10 AM |
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http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/five-bikers-charged-over-group-riding-deaths/17515.html
http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/bikers4.html
http://www.gl1800.org.uk/goldwing-ownership/legal-responsibilities-of-a-group-ride-leader/
Common sense or logic has nothing to do with our laws!!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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perksy
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 09:28 AM |
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As far as groups of Kit cars is concerned
A few years ago when i was a WSCC area organiser, we were advised that if you had any more than 12 cars
in a group you should really make contact with the relevent police in the area you were travelling in/through
We had runs where we had alot more than that so we spilt the groups up into smaller numbers and
sent them off with a time gap inbetween them
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ashg
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 09:48 AM |
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for skcc we usually split into smaller packs with pack leaders when there are 20-30 of us everyone has itn's of the route on their
tomtom's so there is no need for silly maneuvers to keep up with the group.
i have been out on runs in the past where the group in front and have all overtaken and i have held back because i was unsure if i could make it.
usually i would have been fine but on the odd occasion it could have ended badly if i had gone for it. at the end of the day im driving my car and
although driving with the group anything i do is my own independent decision, im not going to follow the pack into a blind corner/overtake if i dont
think its safe.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 10:09 AM |
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This is the problem with modern society that something is always somebody elses fault. Why isn't it just the fault of the rider? He pulled the
throttle back, he choose to go around the car. Nobody forced him im sure.
My heart goes out to the family and its a terrible tradgedy but the law/people need to be realistic, it isn't always somebodys fault!
[Edited on 8/1/12 by wylliezx9r]
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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bi22le
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 12:18 PM |
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I have also been out in group riders and have felt 'that' pressure to overtake to keep up because I did not have the navi. One of the
times it took me soo long to overtake that I completly lost the group. I ended up turning around and going home. I missed out on the 'group
blat' but made my own one on the way home. TBH I felt alot more comfortable driving at my pace and that experience has put me off slightly on
going on others.
I have since made sure I have .itn files before we leave and just make the drive my own and not a matter of staying in pack or keeping up.
Real shame about the OP story in the link. I have never heard of this and it sickens me slightly to think that the police wanted to prosecute people
that were obviosly their friends and never wanted this to happen. Ill be more careful next time I go to the park with my friends. If something happens
it could be my fault regardless of situation!
Biz
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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smart51
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 12:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
One of the times it took me soo long to overtake that I completly lost the group
We always used the rule, if you can't see the car behind you, slow down. If you still can't see them, stop. If you still can't see
them, turn back.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 02:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/five-bikers-charged-over-group-riding-deaths/17515.html
http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/bikers4.html
http://www.gl1800.org.uk/goldwing-ownership/legal-responsibilities-of-a-group-ride-leader/
Common sense or logic has nothing to do with our laws!!
Exactly, most people confuse Law and Justice, never before in history have the two been further apart, the courts are so full of laws that there is no
room for any justice.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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coozer
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 04:37 PM |
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Why did the fuzz do dawn raids? What on earth would that do concerning driving?
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 8/1/12 at 06:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Why did the fuzz do dawn raids? What on earth would that do concerning driving?
Speed kills
If they were overtaking then they must have been going at a different speed
They were going at a different speed just like the other riders so they're all a bunch of genocidal maniacs
At least I imagine that's how some people think
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