I'm currrently trying to choose a camshaft for my 2.0 pinto replacement that is being ported at the moment and will probably be bored out to 2.1.

Having read around a bit in prev posts Dave Andrews guide suggests picking a cam with high lift and shorter duration but Des Hammil says the pinto is less sensetive to longer durations.

I only have 40's atm but am considering bike carbs as a later upgrade. I have megajolt installed but not running yet.

I'm considering one of the following:-

Kent FR30 1000-6000 RPM 11.93 lift 260 duration 20/60 60/20 timing

Piper BP285 2200-7000 RPM 11.81 lift 270 duration 27/63 73/37 timing

Burton BF134 11.64 lift 266 duration

Other possibilities include

Kent FR21, 31 and 32 but these tend to have lower valve lifts or longer durations

Any one any experience or recommendations?

Realistically I will be using it for fun road use most of the time and the occasional track days when the brakes are upgraded.

FR31 is in mine, but haven't run it yet!

Regards

Rich

used to run the 285 in our old MKII escort rally car, was very happy with it, wish i still had that car.....sigh
Mac

Kent fr 33 or piper 285 i have a 285 fitted and would not use any thing milder then that
Jacko

FR33 would be good for a 2.1 wih a gas flowed head will still pull from low down and opens up the top end a bit too.

I have tried the FR31 but it definitely didn't have the go that the FR33 has

I would imagine that piper has an equivalent if you prefer those

You are doing a fair bit of work there, why strangle it with not enough cam?

Cheers

Mark

I m running a Piper 285 on bike carbs and it is a good choice.

I can drive around town in 4th at 2000rpm quite comfortably and yet it still pulls around to 6500

I don't think I would go any wilder because unless you are going to scream it you won't see any real benefit.

Did mine earlier this year
Got my cam and followers from Newmans
In my opinion they offered a good cam with the right balance of lift and duration.
Goes extremely well now and you don't have to rev it hard. Alo when I spoke to the various manufacturers Newmans were the only people who questioned me on what I was doing and trying to achieve... most just wanted to flog me a new cam!
http://www.newman-cams.com/
I used a PH4
hope this helps

I have an Emerald Phase 4 from Newmans too. Very nice cam indeed. Pulls well from low down, and just keeps on going, and going, and going. Worth talking to Newmans ... they're friendly, helpful, and really know their stuff. They'll help you decide between the various options, based on what you want.
Cheers
Richard

Ive used FR32 and to be honest its a bit mild. Head is mildly ported but block is stock std so that may be partly the reason (may respond better to some lightening and balancing).

FR33 is known to be a better choice. I was also recommended recently to use Piper A8 but not looked this up to see the differences.

If i get more work done on my head ill be looking for something a bit wilder.
Its worth reading up about valve train geometry if you are doing some serious head work, from what ive read so far getting this wrong can negate the advantage of the new cam. Get it right along with good porting and the engine will be a flyer.

Cheers,
Darren.

for an everyday road car the piper 285 (or kent equivalent) is a great cam.

It pulls from tickover to quite a lot and goes well with a std bottom end on the engine i.e. no need to rev it loads.

Possibly even a bit too grunty low down for a seven, often you'll find it nicer to spread the power further up the rev range at the expense of a touch of low down if the car is very light, but then that depends on what you are doing with it.

Having watched mookaloids video (have a look yourself) doing a hillclimb, whatever he has done to his pinto is good and works, it has bags of torque which appears to be spread almost perfectly for the traction of the car.

Main thing to remember with cams is don't go over the top on a road car, (which is advice that you will hear from everywhere and still ignore when it comes to ordering, I've done it and you'll regret it!! ) and there is no point over camming an engine on a std bottom end, as you just narrow your available power band.

An engine with decent mods, held back by a mild cam still drives really well and feels great, an engine with too much cam for the flow that the head can generate drives awfully, feels fluffy and horrid.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread but....

what If I am fitting a set of bike throttle bodies ?

I'm planning a 2.1 bottom end with a mildly ported (standard valves) head skimmed to give a 10.5 ish CR and GSXR 750 throttle boddies.

Was looking at a Kent Cams FR34 kit but this seems to have a relatively short duration.. is this best for fuel inj ??

FR34 - 263' inlet duration
FR33 - 300' inlet duration
Piper 285 - 270' inlet duration
Newman PH2 - 284' inlet duration

as long as you are using a TPS based system not a map sensor system then it makes no odds, same cam as with carbs will be fine.

quote:

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Originally posted by NS Dev
as long as you are using a TPS based system not a map sensor system then it makes no odds, same cam as with carbs will be fine.

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oh man, i was convinced a higher duration was better according to what i understood from Des Hamill's book. i had decided on Burton's BF30 road/rally camshaft with 300deg duration and .460 lift... is this a stupid choice? it will be used mainly on the road but as a weekend blat car...

Thanks for all the advice.

I'm concerned not to overcam as stated as I realistically won't be thrashing it all the time and don't want to loose traction low down.

The FR33 seems a bit wild to me compared to the Piper 285 and the FR30/31/32. I had discounted anything with a lower rev range above 2500.

The Piper A8 looks wild at 304 degrees and 12.70mm valve lift. Similar to Kent RL30 and FR33.

I'm thinking Piper 285 atm as a good compromise of lift and duration and see where I get from there. Kent don't seem to have an equivilant as either the valve lift or timing are different.

All i can tell you Pajsh is that the FR32 i have fitted seems quite tame and civilised. FR33 has been quoted as a better choice, Piper A8 doesnt seem too far away from that.

From what i have seen the normal Escort great cams arent the same in our cars. We have after al spirrited cars so spirrited cams seem the order of the day which takes us past the fast road type bot certainly not up to the full race range.

Piper A8 was recommended by a reputable engine builder. Another uses FR33. Neither recommends FR32 (bugger!!! as that is what i have installed). It would also appear that the wilder cams can be controlled with 3D mappable ignition.

I have an FR22 (old equivalent of the FR32) fitted to mine, as i was originally using an DGAS carb, now i have fitted 40's I wish i had fitted a FR33 form the comments made here, at least its a fairly easy swap if i decide to do it once i get it on the road.

David

quote:

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Originally posted by pajsh
Thanks for all the advice.

I'm concerned not to overcam as stated as I realistically won't be thrashing it all the time and don't want to loose traction low down.

The FR33 seems a bit wild to me compared to the Piper 285 and the FR30/31/32. I had discounted anything with a lower rev range above 2500.

The Piper A8 looks wild at 304 degrees and 12.70mm valve lift. Similar to Kent RL30 and FR33.

I'm thinking Piper 285 atm as a good compromise of lift and duration and see where I get from there. Kent don't seem to have an equivilant as either the valve lift or timing are different.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by NS Dev

Main thing to remember with cams is don't go over the top on a road car, (which is advice that you will hear from everywhere and still ignore when it comes to ordering, I've done it and you'll regret it!! ) and there is no point over camming an engine on a std bottom end, as you just narrow your available power band.

An engine with decent mods, held back by a mild cam still drives really well and feels great, an engine with too much cam for the flow that the head can generate drives awfully, feels fluffy and horrid.

---

Hi Pajsh when i modded my pinto i asked bogg brothers there advice about cams with bike carbs fitted they said to go for a piper 285 or a piper a8 if i fit a big valve head . my engine has had
rebore +60th
head planed by 1mm
modded head [ ported ect]
lightend flywheel
zx9r bike carbs
modded dizzy
+ a vernier pulley

It has 140 bhp at the wheels -
I hope this helps you
Don,t forget to check clearances piston to head etc

Jacko

[Edited on 15/11/06 by jacko]

I bought my cam off a guy who had just had his tiger rolling roaded. The FR32 had only ran a few hours when they took it out in favour of a FR33. Maybe that should have told me something at the time.

Dont get me wrong the FR32, im sure, is a big improvement over std and is certainly civilised around the town. I cant say how it compares to a std cam as ive never had the pleasure (old cam was buggered so i was forced to change during the build).

Knowing what i know now, and from talking to 2 reputable race engine builders with practical experiance of the Pinto i would defo fit either Piper A8 or Kent FR33 when i evenually throw cash at the head.

I am running standard injection, does this exclude the favoured cams, I know that Kent FR34 is the recommended cam, but what would happen if I fit a FR33 or a Piper A8?

Interesting question Mark. I guess what you are getting into is the key differences between carbs and EFi. In my mind carbs are a crude(r) fuel metering device that normally use basic injection. EFi however tends to be a more accurate method. In my mind the rules for cams should be the same, the only issue being perhaps that some EFi ECU's dont allow the tweaking to make such changes to be of full effect.

So in short i would think if you have mappable management then you should be able to change cams as per carbs fuelling. The problem would seem to be that few locosters would have the resources to do the comparative analysis and determine the true facts. Give it a go if you can get a cheap cam.

Using a mapable EFI system tuned to suit a carb cam ?? (or 'mimic' carbs if you like)

I can't help thinking that you'd just be better of with carbs


but does anyone know what cams the guys racing EFI pintos use ?
eg: http://www.wilcoxengines.demon.co.uk/pinto.htm

Well I'm still in the dark... I am sat here with my credit card in hand wanting to order my cam kit but still don't know what to order to work well with 2.1 Pinot on GSXR throttle bodies and Megasquirt......

Help - I want to spend the money before the wife gets her hands on it!

Well - if i had your credit card in my hand i would have ordered either a Piper A8 or KentFR33 by now. Probs the 33 as ive experienced Mookaloids car with one in.
I would have also just dropped my head off to have big valves fitted and a decent porting job as well.

What is the long number across the middle????

Just sorted finances and have £3000 sat in the bank just for spending on the car

Let the spending begin!

Thinking I should go for the FR33 kit.....

On my choice I'm now (ignoring the advice not to overcam and probably regret it) going either Piper A8/Kent RL30 (both very similar) or Kent FR33 on the basis that Kent FR32 doesn't have the valve lift and Piper 285 doesn't have the duration.

Won't be till next year I'll know though if I've made the right choice.

ATB

quote:

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Originally posted by DaveFJ
Just sorted finances and have £3000 sat in the bank just for spending on the car

Let the spending begin!

Thinking I should go for the FR33 kit.....

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nah - far too much else to buy yet - reserving about 800 to get the Pinto fully sorted..... think I may struggle at that....

Sod it - couldn't wait - fingers got too itchy...

So I have oredered a Kent FR33 cam kit

Where did you order from? Did you shop around for the best deal?
I am in a similar situation to you, so this thread makes good reading!
Thanks

shopped around a bit but ended up going back to Burtons in the end... £236 delivered

everywhere else i tried seemed cheaper at first but then went up when they added delivery etc

[Edited on 20/11/06 by DaveFJ]

For future reference for others I've narrowed down my pinto 2.0 cam choice as follows:-

1) If I can live with 12.8mm valve lift I'll go Kent RL30 or Piper A8 304 degrees both with simlar timing 47/77 71/41

2) If not I'll go Kent FR33 or Burton BF30 at 11.7mm 300 degrees and again similar timing 42/75 74/43

3) Or if I heed advice not to over cam I will go FR30/P285/BF134 at around 11.9, 260, 20/60 60/20

Choice is really 1) or 2) depending on my engine builders view on valve lift & spring rates.

Shall visit him at the weekend and advise what feedback I get.