Has anyone seen 'The Passion of Christ' and do they dare say what they thought..................I keep getting into rows when I do!!!
sounds like a self indulgent horror film based on the story of Christ.
I cant understand why anyone would want to watch blatent violence like that.
I avoid horror films - life can be crap enough without paying to watch 2 hrs of torture in your leisure time.
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
I cant understand why anyone would want to watch blatent violence like that.
I avoid horror films - life can be crap enough without paying to watch 2 hrs of torture in your leisure time.
On this side of the pond I find it interesting that so many decry the "violence" in this film, but remain curously silent on things far, far more objectionable and damaging to the psyche and soul.
Amen,
if Janet Jacksons Tit caused all that forore, imagine a 2 hrs crucifiction!
America sometimes has its priorities all wrong.
Still doesnt justify what seems to be a religious slasher movie.
Still - lots of potential follow up movies - a few of the disciples met sticky ends too I think.......
atb
steve
Knowing Hollywood's Passion for followups, we'll probably get the Resurrection next!
ATB
Simon
The only reason we were so upset with the whole super bowl "wardrobe malfuntion" was .........we thought it was Micheal Jackson.
Fletch
(God, Why could'nt have been Beyonce'
[Edited on 31/3/04 by thekafer]
I sae the film and was moved by it. To me the violence portrayed in this movie is quite different than the violence seen in most all Hollywood
productions. The senseless, gratuitous, violence of Hollywood has no deep meaning, no purpose, other than to satiate the typically American
compensation for our puritanical view of sexuality. In the Passion, I believe that the violence is not gratuitous. Why? The point of Christianity is
that the entire reason for Christ being on this earth was to die on the cross and in doing so 'absolve' us all of our sins. In that context,
the type of violence portrayed in the film was actually pretty mild.
I was brought up as a Christian (Mennonite actually) but I have no faith now, except in myself. 
Graber
I have not seen the film itself, but would like to offer the following comments. The voilence only serves to indicate that sin can not be left
unpunished and when one person has to take on all the sin of the world, you get what you see in the passion. But from what I know from studying the
bible is that you never quite get to grips with the magnitude of things and therefore the violence as portrayed is most probably understated, and
unfathomanable.
The other point , as I am lead to believe, is that after watching the movie, you have to make a decision about Christ. Do you acknowledge what he did
for us, the suffering he was subjected to and the freedom from death he has given to us.
Or, do you think that it is a gruesome story about mob voilence as found in the rest of the world, with no implication or bearing on your life.
And Garber, I am sorry to hear that you only have faith in yourself now. I cant find faith in myself becuase despite my best intentions I am as
inconsistent as the weather. Faith is about having hope when there is no hope, believing in something that is yet to come, but has not. Faith is
believing that one man Jesus Christ has died on the cross for our sins, and through him and believing in him we are made right with God, and therefore
are not subject to judgement.
So, I believe that the Jury (the rest of mankind) is still out on Jesus. I am just glad that I know on which side of the judge I sit.
Hopefully, but doubtedly this may have highlighted some things. This topic may just become more heated than the concern over front suspension under
the forum chassis.
Cheers
Jayce
I never new it was he who invented the modern dining table!!!!
<tries not to stoke flames but probably will >
Hi,
Simon Balckburn in his book 'Think' gave an example along the lines of the following (it's paraphrasing as I remember it )
"God gave us reason. Using the evidence available, we would reason that there is no God. These people will receive their reward in Heaven. Those
who believe have not used their reasoning faculties that they were endowed with and will therefore not go to heaven."
As an agnostic, I find it most amusing. My wife, as a Christian, also finds it amusing. We will often discuss religious issues and agree/disagree in a
good natured way. I find my best conversations about the believability point of religion are with the local vicar and his part-time preacher.
He's a really nice bloke who will happily discuss these things for hours and never dismiss things out of hand without giving it some serious
thought. It's just the members of his flock who are a little scary sometimes with their outright and categorical dismissal and assertions based
on nothing. They don't want to think about it.
This coupled with the hilarious, yet utterly emphatic assertion from a friends father when we were kids that the original 997 long-stroke Mini Cooper
revved higher than the over-square 970S because it had a long stroke, yes, because it had a long stroke leads me to the following, that is by
no means exclusive to religious discussion:
Some people have closed minds, no amount of reason, evidence or experience will help.
Cheers,
Neil.
</tries not to stoke flames but probably will >
whether you believe in God or not, its hard to deny that the world would be a very peaceful place if everyone followed the teaching of
Christianity.
the stumbling block for me is that seemingly good people can end up in hell, just by not admitting minor sins and being forgiven. that doesnt seem
right to me. My gf's grandpa died the other week, he was a wonderful man but apparently, he's in hell now? i think not.
the other thing that annoys me has already been mentioned, the close mindedness and blind faith of some people. and the damned rituals...
oh yeah, and people who claim to be either catholic or protestant when they are neither, and still think they deserve a listing in the book of life
for it.
i personally believe in free religion, a personal relationship with God and no man telling me what to think or say. I'll live with my consience
and you live with yours.
just my 2ps worth.
oh yeah, back to the film. Well, it serves as a reminder at least, and gets things talked about that often wouldn't be. Still, as pointed out at
first, theres no need to indulge in violence, and i dont like dramatising things. YOU WEREN'T THERE MEL.
WEll, I haven't seen the movie either but, as a practicing atheist, I treat it much as I would any other modern spin on an old fairytale.
quote:
Do you acknowledge what he did for us, the suffering he was subjected to and the freedom from death he has given to us.
quote:
Faith is believing that one man Jesus Christ has died on the cross for our sins, and through him and believing in him we are made right with God, and therefore are not subject to judgement.
quote:
"Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?"
"Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us because it makes him feel better about himself. He's a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it. So he doesn't care who he takes - children, puppies, it don't matter to him so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand"
"Then why does he give us anything to start with?"
"Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lolly-pop, then you take it away. If you never give it a lolly-pop to begin with, then it'd have nothing to cry about. That's like God - who
gives us life and love and health, just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry. So, he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power."
"... I think I understand."
- Stan and Chef, "South Park"
quote:
...because Allah is waiting with 72 virgins for me.
I watched the news the other day where Muslims were dragging the mutilated bodies of people through the street behind cars and then hanging them up on display in front of a crowd of cheering onlookers including children. Admittedly they were the foreigners who had invaded their homeland but their action was not that of people who have any kind of principles, religious or otherwise but that of a baying angry mob. I am an agnostic not an atheist, show me something and I'll believe it exists. My opinion is that religion was the first law, with its simplistic ten commandments the basis for how society has to behave to survive if it is not to revert to jungle law, the strongest takes all and might is right. The discussion is endless with different strengths, mental and physical and agility being relevant in different contexts but it eventually evens out with the need for people to accept the rules society lays down. The story of Jesus is an illustration of what will happen if the wrong people are making the rules and shows us what will happen if we let it. My opinion but I am entitled to it and if anyone else wants to take the Bible more literally, not treat it as a metaphor then they are entitled to that as well.
Dear The GEKO
quote:
Faith is believing that one man Jesus Christ has died on the cross for our sins, and through him and believing in him we are made right with God, and therefore are not subject to judgement.
Religion and Sexuality. We have already had the Sexuality topic and that almost blew up a few people...
Will this be happening here? Or will cooler heads prevail?
Graber
Cheers Jayce, twas my girlfriends (gf's!) gramps but it felt personal anyway. I never appreciated old people til i got to know him.
Time will tell, if nothing else.
I've not seen the film and it does'nt really have any appeal to my taste of cinematography.
I've heard plenty of opinion about it's content and its "message", and all i have to say about the film is "IT'S A
HOLLYWOOD FILM".
Its not an attack on any person or belief, its "A FILM", the only people who take afront to its content are those who are looking to blame
someone else for their own dicisions and insecurities.
LET ALL RELEGIONS TAKE NOTE ;
The world would be a far more peaceful place if it was'nt for religions and their secular pomposity and beligerant superiority .
My opinion by a man who tries to be honest to himself and others !!
I have to say that I find it very frustrating when I see the words 'I Haven't seen the film myself but....'
If you haven't seen it then keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself.
Its like saying I haven't driven an MK but in my opinion it handles much better than Luego....
And yes - I HAVE seen it
To be honest I did find it a little disturbing, however my partner has an extremely good knowledge of the Bible and apparently it is very accurate to
the book of Matthew. (with the notable and bloody stupid exception of Jesus inventing the dining table! - what were they thinking off?)
The Bible states thet Jesus was scourged more than any man..... well anyone who has seen the film will agree, that point was certainly made.
Disturbing ? YES - but then wasn't it supposed to be ?
quote:
Originally posted by protofj
I have to say that I find it very frustrating when I see the words 'I Haven't seen the film myself but....'
Dear Stephen
In questioning the claims that Jesus made, and being unsure whether he was a religios zealot or not, I do have a suggestion for you.
A very well known lawyer, systematically tried to dispute the existance and claims of Christ, he wrote a book about it.
I dont have the name of the author, but I believe the book is entiled "who moved the stone", I could be wrong. However I will check with
someone over the weekend and get back to you with title and author.
Another good book to read is by Ravi Zacharias it is entitled "The shattered visage of atheism". It is an apologetic book, but the ultimate
statement is that if we follow our own hearts and minds and believe that God does not exist, the conclusion will be that we become a person like
Hitler.
I believe that it is sometimes better to get it from the experts.
However, I welcome any questions personally addressed to me.
cheers
Jayce
Reminds me of the Billy Connolly film, "The man who sued God".
there must be a lot of hitlers in the world then.
strange we dont see that many
atb
steve
quote:
You can have an idea of what you expect to see (ie reviews) and make an informed opinion.
I thought the movie was remarkable and beautifully done, for the most part, and I'm glad that Mel is making a ton of money for putting his career
on the line to make it.
Pete
quote:
Originally posted by protofj
quote:
You can have an idea of what you expect to see (ie reviews) and make an informed opinion.
Well if your happy to be told what to think then that's your choice....
Personally I prefer to form my own opinions....
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Have you seen god? , but not actually seen him yourself...
quote:
Originally posted by timf
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Have you seen god? , but not actually seen him yourself...
to answer his type of question my old re teacher at school used to ask can you see oxygen ? no , so how can that exist etc
but does it really matter every one has their own theories just leave it at that.
btw if mel had made a simillar film about allah any think that he wouln't be in hiding with a fatwah on his head ?
quote:
Originally posted by I love speed :-P
no but u can do tests to prove that O2 is there though
Try this.....
Here
this just about says it all methinks
13. ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE
(1) [arbitrary passage from OT]
(2) [arbitrary passage from NT]
(3) Therefore, God exists.
atb
steve
I preffered 14.
See what I mean ,this topic appears to be a bit of a HOT potato!!!!!!!!!!
I kinda liked the film,my accountant thought it was good too
quote:
Originally posted by Mel Gibson
I kinda liked the film,my accountant thought it was good too
protofj
Proof that God exists. I would like to add another one to the list, which I believe is the most accurate of all those posted on the "ahteists
from silicon valley humour page" site.
1) "All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved"
Proof for statement one, look at some of the responses to my previous posts
2)" They spat on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again. After they had mocked him, they took off the robe
and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him"
Proof for statement two, look at some of the responses to my previous posts. The above is a metaphor of many peoples reponses on this issue.
3)"You will be ever hearing but never understanding, you will be ever seeing but never percieving."
Proof for statement three, despite telling the truth how many have listened, heard, percieved and therefore understood.
If statements 1, 2 and 3 are true then God exists.
Lastly, consider this
"But I tell you that men have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word spoken. For by your words you are aquitted, and by
your words you will be condemned."
Hopefully this will spice up the day, and I urge you to seriously consider the above
I didn't follow any of the arguments. They were like:-
1. I just farted.
2. It smells awful.
3. Therefore God exists.
Makes as much sense to me. Blind faith is what we are looking for, not rational thinking or reasonable explanations. You don't hear of any
Christian suicide bombers. It's not a patch on the Mad Max films by the way, Mel.
whatever you say, if god created human beings with questioning minds, why give so little evidence with which to come to a conclusion?
put it this way. If god was a product to be brought with a credit card over the internet, would you buy? You cant touch, smell, feel or get any life
time users opinion that the purchase was what it said it was, performed as described, or would eventually even be delivered.
The beauty of blind faith is that, if there is only a void, you will never know.
consider the marketing technique in religion. Its basically 'buy the product or be tortured FOREVER with fire'.
Not much of a sales pitch really. Or much of an ad for a forgiving god.
But then the bible was written by men, not god, so if he exists who the frig knows what he thinks. Its all second hand from people that 'heard or
talked to god'.
most people claiming that nowadays say it in court as an excuse for murder or insanity.
Like I said, if im wrong, I will admit that to god.
I just hope that heaven isnt run like christian churches - id rather have a void than eternity modelled on hyms, vicars and boredom.
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
It's not a patch on the Mad Max films by the way, Mel.
"But I tell you that men have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word spoken. For by your words you are aquitted, and by
your words you will be condemned."
So on the one hand, beleie in Jesus and everything is ok.
On the other, yout whole life will be gone through with a fine tooth comb, for any little thing said out of line, then you are blown out.
Something like be the nices bloke in the world, but that time you hit yourself on the finger with a hammer and blasphemed wrecked it all.
organised religion is man made bollox
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
"But I tell you that men have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word spoken. For by your words you are aquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
So on the one hand, beleie in Jesus and everything is ok.
On the other, yout whole life will be gone through with a fine tooth comb, for any little thing said out of line, then you are blown out.
Something like be the nices bloke in the world, but that time you hit yourself on the finger with a hammer and blasphemed wrecked it all.
organised religion is man made bollox
atb
steve
Thanks for the futher explanation.
Part of justice is a measured response to a crime. Hell and Damnation is a pretty unmeasured response to a crime - and there doesnt seem to be any
lesser sentance if you fail to be riteous.
If, as the bible says, that one day everything will end, then everything is truly bollox.
and this is where you say with belief, its not.
atb
steve
[Edited on 5/4/04 by stephen_gusterson]
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Thanks for the futher explanation.
Part of justice is a measured response to a crime. Hell and Damnation is a pretty unmeasured response to a crime - and there doesnt seem to be any lesser sentance if you fail to be riteous.
If, as the bible says, that one day everything will end, then everything is truly bollox.
70 years of working to scrape a living, then you pop your clogs, thats pretty bollox isnt it?
But then there is always the afterlife.......
or not
atb
steve
A thought-provoking essay
Here's a whole bunch of articles:
For
Against
'Apologetics', btw, doesn't have to do with apologizing for anything, but is a term meaning 'defending the faith'.
Just to point up that The Big Argument is effectively a draw.
FWIW, I think atheists protest too much. With the human condition being as absurd as it is, why not at least be open to possibilities?
Pete
[Edited on 5/4/04 by pbura]
Christ would not have built a locost
he would have given the money away
Im signing off on this debate now.
But one final point.
It was said (I dont remember where) that a persons sense of self is important. Depression is caused by not knowing who you are, or where you fit
in.
Some people find their sense of self in their work.
Some in their family.
Some in their god existing.
Those that dont have a sense of belonging or self are the depressives, unhappy people. The kind that commit suicide, hate others and the world.
Your god is your sense of belonging and self.
Wether he is a feeling inside yourself or real, only you may know one day.
atb
steve
loosen up a bit lads
Get up go to work come home enjoy,when the weekend comes enjoy some more.
Life is so short make the most of it.
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Some people find their sense of self in their work.
Some in their family.
Some in their god existing.
Those that dont have a sense of belonging or self are the depressives, unhappy people. The kind that commit suicide, hate others and the world.
Your god is your sense of belonging and self.
Wether he is a feeling inside yourself or real, only you may know one day.
steve
