Originally posted by dogwood
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
I don't think paedophiles need vasectomies
OK ....SNIP,SNIP,SNIP.....
Then there will be no doubt
Who's watching it now? What are your views?
This has caused much heated debate in my house. My wife would hang him (and others) in a shot. My view is that although I think people like that are
scum, I just can't agree with the death penalty. My reasons are:
1. You just never know (unless caught red handed);
2. I fail to believe there is not a better use of a human life (no matter how evil);
3. It would put the UK back decades;
4. It would turn us into the US;
5. I don't believe that a life senetence is a life sentence in the UK. Surely put that right first before introducing death?
Any views?
Lock them up throw away the keys, no need to kill them.
What really pisses me off is that stealing from an institution such as a bank will deliver a bigger sentence than murder!
You can replace money and goods, not life and limbs
[Edited on 9/11/09 by mark chandler]
I don't agree with captial punishment pretty much for the reasons above.
BUT...I have enormous issues with the cost to the rest of us for housing and keeping these people alive and healthy.
How can it be right that good people people are being denied healthcare options in the UK when we spend millions upon millions running a penal system
which doesn't show a positive net result....?
I totally agree.
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
What really pisses me off is that stealing from an institution such as a bank will deliver a bigger sentence than murder!
[Edited on 9/11/09 by mark chandler]
quote:
Originally posted by dogwood
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
What really pisses me off is that stealing from an institution such as a bank will deliver a bigger sentence than murder!
[Edited on 9/11/09 by mark chandler]
Totally agree with you Mark.
Think the answer for phedos is simple..
SNIP,SNIP job done
David
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
I don't think paedophiles need vasectomies
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
quote:
Originally posted by dogwood
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
What really pisses me off is that stealing from an institution such as a bank will deliver a bigger sentence than murder!
[Edited on 9/11/09 by mark chandler]
Totally agree with you Mark.
Think the answer for phedos is simple..
SNIP,SNIP job done
David
I don't think paedophiles need vasectomies
quote:
Originally posted by dogwood
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
I don't think paedophiles need vasectomies
OK ....SNIP,SNIP,SNIP.....
Then there will be no doubt
quote:
Originally posted by dogwood
Totally agree with you Mark.
Think the answer for phedos is simple..
SNIP,SNIP job done
David
Genuine question to you guys above ^^^
Do you have children ?
ANYBODY who touched my daughters will receive the death penalty - but it won't be delivered by a court !
Get real people - if we had proper deterents for these perverts instead of the holiday camps ( prisons ) we send them to we might see a reduction in
this perverted scum.
Wonder what little Madelaine MaCann's parents think ????
Bunch of non-conformist missfits :-)
You guys must be the only ones not watching Flashforward. ;-)
guys, there is no shortage of humans out there. And there are plenty we could do without. I think there are definately cases where people should be
shot/hung/cut to pieces as appropriate. Start with Vanessa George, then work your way through the list of ANYONE who has killed someone without a good
reason, or demonstrated themselves to be unconstructive 
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Genuine question to you guys above ^^^
Do you have children ?
ANYBODY who touched my daughters will receive the death penalty - but it won't be delivered by a court !
Get real people - if we had proper deterents for these perverts instead of the holiday camps ( prisons ) we send them to we might see a reduction in this perverted scum.
Wonder what little Madelaine MaCann's parents think ????
Oh, and I have two kids and the wife is a childminder. Also now I'm starting to think hang the bugger! But then...
[Edited on 9/11/09 by contaminated]
i strongly believe that crims should not cost the taxpayer, can't decide what we should do about pedos though. not sure death is right
Not so long ago unknown to me a "toucher and groomer" entered my circle of friends.
None of us knew this persons past(obviously) and life continued as normal.
This person has now gone away. Basicly this person is back inside for breach of parole. Now here is the freaky part and I will try and keep it simple
but clear.
The condition of this persons release in the first place were that they could have an email address but could not go on social network sites. I can
understand that, I am a fair and rational person and even though wrongs have been done in the past this person still has a right to comunicate.
However when said person went on a social network site they went "away" again.
Also this person was meant to have a gaurdian where ever they went. So unknown to me I was taking this person to the odd place not knowing that i was
an escort/gaurdian. What would have happened if they were found up to no good and I was the gaurdian.
If this person ever comes near me again this fair and rational man will dish out the mother of all hidings.
Oh yeah I have a 6 year old daughter a 2 year old boy and this person has been in my house.
The unfortunate thing ladies and gents is that there is no escaping it, we for the sake of our precious little children just have to be as
loving,protective and vigilant without suffocating them and letting them enjoy life freely
Yes I have children, I did not watch the program BTW, not something I wanted to see.
The question was related to the death penalty, personally I think being locked up for life is worth than death, the problem is that in this country
life imprisonment does not mean that.
I also believe that prison type should reflect the crime.
Yes we have open prisons but the really hard ones have now gone.
Yes its bloody expensive, and for my money I would have something on the lines of:
pre-meditated murder and paedophiles, it would be solitary confinement and hard labour for life
Damage people, mentally or physically then something harsh but on a scale, starting as above, you can absolutely ruin someones life without killing
them.
Steal money/goods, make them pay it all back through controlled work if its just plain theft, no need to chop hands off.
Death
To easy
Impossible to reverse
i don't think glitters music was that bad...
this is pretty terrible though (don't click if you're going to be offended by some bloke on your computer screen...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuDHETtYOAE
[Edited on 10/11/09 by blakep82]
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
I don't agree with captial punishment pretty much for the reasons above.
BUT...I have enormous issues with the cost to the rest of us for housing and keeping these people alive and healthy.
How can it be right that good people people are being denied healthcare options in the UK when we spend millions upon millions running a penal system which doesn't show a positive net result....?
I personally don't think capital punishment is a good idea. The biggest problem with making capital offences is that juries will be less likely
to convict if they think the person will recieve an inproportionate punishment (This happened in the past when stealling a loaf of bread could get you
hanged or deported).
I do think corporal punishment is a good idea as it'll do more than some of the fines and short sentances for alot less work. I also think
Prisoners should be forced to work in a way that generates money, how is unimportant.
If capital punishment were reintroduced, I don't really think paedophillia should be a capital offence, repeat offenders maybe but I don't
think its the answer. To be honest, a person should only be in public if they are safe and Paedophiles should be put into hospitals like broadmoor
until they are no longer dangerous. Castration wouldn't neccessarilly help as it doesn't always change the mental processes that cause
people to interfere with kids.
if we lock them up though, we pay for them.
there are some cases where putting a bullet in them is the best way. doesnt put us back or anything, cause you do it very sterile-ey. dont make a big
thing out of it, just do it.
quote:
Originally posted by expatkiwi
Not so long ago unknown to me a "toucher and groomer" entered my circle of friends.
None of us knew this persons past(obviously) and life continued as normal.
This person has now gone away. Basicly this person is back inside for breach of parole. Now here is the freaky part and I will try and keep it simple but clear.
The condition of this persons release in the first place were that they could have an email address but could not go on social network sites. I can understand that, I am a fair and rational person and even though wrongs have been done in the past this person still has a right to comunicate. However when said person went on a social network site they went "away" again.
Also this person was meant to have a gaurdian where ever they went. So unknown to me I was taking this person to the odd place not knowing that i was an escort/gaurdian. What would have happened if they were found up to no good and I was the gaurdian.
If this person ever comes near me again this fair and rational man will dish out the mother of all hidings.
Oh yeah I have a 6 year old daughter a 2 year old boy and this person has been in my house.
The unfortunate thing ladies and gents is that there is no escaping it, we for the sake of our precious little children just have to be as loving,protective and vigilant without suffocating them and letting them enjoy life freely
Would it still be OK to execute kiddie fiddlers if it was done 20-30 years ago and the fiddler in question is a Catholic Priest ? If so there
wouldn't have a lot of the clergy left now (if you believe the press).
What about the nursery assistant in Plymouth ?
Haven't had time to read the thread or research the subject matter, but I saw the words 'Death penalty' and 'Gary Glitter' in
the thread title!
YES!
Read the thread now... there's a hell of a misconception that castration will fix the problem. It may work for a handful, but will have zero
effect on the majority.
Most sex crimes are about 'control' and 'dominance'... this is particularly the case with those who sexually abuse youngsters.
You can chop off what you like, but they will still have the urge to control and dominate, and will find other horrendous means to force this upon
more vulnerable humans.
There is hardly a shred of credible evidence to suggest that child sex offenders can be rehabilitated... all the hard facts point to recidivist
offenders and many shattered lives.
There is only 1 option once a child sex offender has been identified... isolate completely from society sine die. And this leads to only 2 courses of
action... lock them up till their last breath, or exterminate them.
Sadly neither will ever prove to be a deterrent to others however as contrary to media speculation they are not driven by the devil, just boring old
compulsion (the mundane truth scares the sh*t out of me much more than rabble-rousing speculation!).
Having seen countless times the damage that child sex offenders can cause to individuals and their families, I would have no hesitation in either
putting them to a lifetime of CONFINED public service labour, or just put them down.
Any system where the state spends more money feeding it's prisoners than it's school children is seriously in the wrong. Make prisons more
like places of punishment than hotels. Make the punishment worse than the crime rather than easier and crime will decrease. Making prisoners to work 8
hours a day for no wage to pay for their confinement is a just act. Many Muslim countries countries have very low crime rates often as a result of
truely punitive punishments.
Harsh?, yes, but you make your choice and you pay the price.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Two bricks would be a better solution...
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Get real people - if we had proper deterents for these perverts instead of the holiday camps ( prisons ) we send them to we might see a reduction in this perverted scum.
The last person to be executed in the UK was Peter Anthony Allen on 13th August 1964.
I remember seeing a documentary that stated, a little later in time, police evidence shows/suggests that the man was innocent!!
I wouldn't like the thought of executing an innocent person.
Plus we can't make prisoners work as this is against human rights laws etc. Just like they can't be tortured.
quote:
Originally posted by AndyGT
The last person to be executed in the UK was Peter Anthony Allen on 13th August 1964.
I remember seeing a documentary that stated, a little later in time, police evidence shows/suggests that the man was innocent!!
I wouldn't like the thought of executing an innocent person.
Plus we can't make prisoners work as this is against human rights laws etc. Just like they can't be tortured.
quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
The police are better(maybe) at finding the guilty guilty, with DNA testing they struggle to get it wrong.
So yes, bring back the death penalty, it's the only real deterrent.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Read the thread now... there's a hell of a misconception that castration will fix the problem. It may work for a handful, but will have zero effect on the majority.
quote:
Originally posted by contaminated
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Read the thread now... there's a hell of a misconception that castration will fix the problem. It may work for a handful, but will have zero effect on the majority.
I think you're right, however my view is that this would be a punishment rather than a cure. I'd still lock em up.
quote:
Originally posted by AndyGT
I wouldn't like the thought of executing an innocent person.
However good the legal system is (and I have some doubts on that score) mistakes will happen...let alone people being fitted up for crimes by the boys
in blue or the state.
There is no way back once the death penalty has been carried out. The appeals process would also take years so you would end up with hundreds, if not
thousands, of people on death row waiting for the outcome of their appeals.
Sadly I think we need to keep them locked up for the rest of their natural lives.
[Edited on 10/11/09 by jeffw]
there are some really big issues here and they never get addressed by any government of any colour because no one has the balls to be radical anymore,
also no one government is in power long enuogh to make the kind of long term changes we're talking about without it getting mired in political
point scoring or election promises. I have a few thoughts:
1. you can only punish someone if they are responsible. we accept this already in the case of diminished responsibility. but if some guy has been
brought up in a disfunctional famaily and suffered abuse surely he doesnt deserve equal punishment to someone that grew up in a good environment as he
had no control over the environment he grew up in.
2. several people on here have mentioned 'if it happened to me/my kids i'd have a different approach' which whilst understandable
doesnt work as an approach to crime/justice. my philosphical buddies would have it that you have to arrive at a position after rational thought and
stick to it, regardless of how uncomfortable it may be to you. the same could also be said around the miscarriage of justice issue. How many of those
in favour would think differently if it iwas their brother/ father/partner that was executed by mistake?
3. we have no clear idea of why we send people to prison in this country, so it ends up being a mish mash of punishement/debt to society/justice
seeming to be done and on the other hand actually trying to rehabilitate people to stop them re affending and ending up back in the big house 6 months
later. what im saying is that it might make more sense to spend 100k on one inmate after his first 'visit' to ensure he never offends again
rather than spend 500k on housing him for half of the rest of his life as he continually re offends. but we cant do this in any real way, because we
have to be seen to punish them. so we're stuck, our hands are ties by trying to please everyone with our justice system and as a result we achive
nothing, but spend loads.
[Edited on 10/11/09 by swanny]
The abolition of the death penalty was not because it wasn't working. Instead it was a result of a change of heart amongst the elected MP
community, possibly more forgiving generations coming into power. Effectively a 'let's try something different as a detterent'.
This clearly hasn't worked so bring back the death penalty that worked remarkably well for many centuries.
Couldnt you argue that the only evidence to hand regarding the efficacy of the death penalty suggests that it doesnt work at all.
In the hundreds of years prior to this one we had a much more violent society.
As far as i know america has some of the deadliest places to live on the planet, and there are seldom vacancies on death row.
Doesnt this suggest that it does absolutely nothing as a deterrent but all it really does is 'make people feel better' as a result of some
kind of retribution for the harm they or society have suffered?
Its simply taking someone life to make us all feel better, and less outraged.
quote:
Originally posted by swanny
Couldnt you argue that the only evidence to hand regarding the efficacy of the death penalty suggests that it doesnt work at all.
In the hundreds of years prior to this one we had a much more violent society.
As far as i know america has some of the deadliest places to live on the planet, and there are seldom vacancies on death row.
Doesn't this suggest that it does absolutely nothing as a deterrent but all it really does is 'make people feel better' as a result of some kind of retribution for the harm they or society have suffered?
Its simply taking someone life to make us all feel better, and less outraged.
This is all irrelevent as the EU banned the Death penalty in 2000 so our governments have no power to execute people.
The Death penalty is a useless deterent as the crimes that warrant it can't really be detered, that is to say normal people don't kill each
other without sufficient reason. You can deter people from stealling and the like but some people out there are killers, rapists, paedophiles ect.
The murder rate in this country was far lower (and stayed very stable) whilst the death penalty was in effect compared to the rate now without it.
Emotion should not prevent an adequate deterrent or punishment from being enacted against a lawless minority that has no regard for the rest of
society.
And you still think these dirty B*stards deserve anything other than death ??????
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8354316.stm
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
And you still think these dirty B*stards deserve anything other than death ??????
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8354316.stm
Pedophiles are essentially incurable, I'm for shipping them off to their own island or something comparable. I'm not a tremendous death
penalty advocate but the lasting damage they do to others is incalculable.
t