My friggin' wife has just gotten 9 points driving to her mum's over two consecutive weekends. With the three she got 5 months ago its not looking good for licence keeping.

Two offences occured 11 minutes apart.

Anyone got any good defences? (Apart from i tell the pigs that some were mine, her preferred option!)

sorry to hear that.......

but think, if you take some of her points... you will need to be *seriosuly* rewarded.

you could bring it up for years!!

all the best
Mark

Ask 'em for proof of ID as you are unclear as to who was driving at the time. Might get you off if they don't have proof it was you. I've heard of a few companied doing it ONCE.

Otherwise tell her to slow down...

it's illegal for the police to force a confession, so if they were camera's don't tell them who was driving. you'll prolly get a few demanding letters, but they'll give up if you keep telling them that you can't reveal the driver. There's also a European law that says that it's your right not to incriminate yourself. Just say you can't tell them who was driving the car as you "may" incriminate your self.

Whats the offence? Assuming it's a speed cam job, can you claim she never slowed down between the photos (therefore only 1 offence committed)

Chris

thats a good idea, but i think they can screw you twice for one offence anyway! sure they'd come up with a way to do it.

if you notice the camera flash you can send off the v5 to a new keeper, but its usually too late to be believeable if you do it after the summons/ticket arrives.

have a look on www.pistonheads.co.uk,there is plenty on loop holes etc.and good luck

Ask the police to provide a calibration certificate for that camera, to prove that the speed sensing equipement was functionning correctly, and accurately sensing/recording the speed. Generally that sort of equipement should be calibrated once, twice, maybe more times a year. If they can't, then how can the prove that the speed it showed it is correct!? It's worth a go... You may get lucky.
HTH
James

the first response is .... your screwed. Lots of people try to get round the system and the police are getting used to it.

Ok, seriously take legal advice. The people who specialise and have made a name in doing so defending speeding motorists charge a fortune. A bloke at work was quoted 1400 pounds for his defence!!!!!! He then talked to someone who wasn't one of the famous expert traffic lawyers who basically told him that he had no case in reality and to take the 3 points / 60 quid.

Good luck.

The brakes weren't working so I was in a hurry to get home. Sorry but you look like going without a few meals to pay the fines. She may be offered classes instead of points under the new rules, worth looking at.

For what it's worth I tried the "I'm not sure who was driving at the time" defense but the responsibility of knowing who was driving falls to the registered keeper and this defense isn't very successful these days.

I'd probably go for the compasionate defense in this case, and try to get them to believe that she had a momentary lapse of concentration. This shouldn't be too difficult to prove because as we all know, Women always have lots of things going on in their minds...

I would certainly say that you should get advice from a solicitor or perhaps the likes of the AA if you are a member. Don't accept a fixed penalty, go to court and try to plead your case. Take note of the road conditions, weather and traffic conditions at the times of the offences to try to play down the severity of the offence. If it was a marginal speeding offence then that would help too. Surely 3 offences of doing 70MPH in a 60MPH limit are less important than doing 120MPH once!!

Good luck!
Craig.

ps. Forget all of the above, just take responsibility for one of the offences and make sure you get a good "price" for it!!

or find a skint student who will take points for beer money - they dont ask for proof of insurance etc so it doesnt matter if the skint sod has never seen the car.

Theres no easy way out i'm affraid. I got scoped by a mobile camera and asked for the video/photographic evidence they had, took em ages to get back to me so i had hardly any time left of the period they give you.

The photo had no date/time/speed on it at all. I still hav'nt found out if this evidence could of been used - it was just a pic of my car!

I bent over and took the 3/£60

I have heard (as long as they dont have a frontal view of the driver) that you send back the NIP stateing the other spouse was driving. They then recieve a NIP and state that it was the other spouse driving.

As by law spouses can't testify against each other or something like that then the cases are normally dropped.

Pot luck city.....


Cheers


G

If she did it, she'll have to pay the fine, cop the points (and the upped insurance premiums) and like it. I got 8 points some years ago when I first got my bike licence. 3 & £45 for 45 in a 30 and 5 & £100 for 57 in a 30. I knew I'd done it, I was in the wrong so I took the punishment. That's what happens when you do something wrong you know.

Just thinking about this again, you might be able to pleed that the two offences that occures 11 minutes apart are one offence and only get 3 points instead of 6. I'm just thinking if you shoot someone twice or rob two things at the same time you don't get two separate charges raised against you.

Again, legal advice needed here.

Many of the mythical 'get out of jail ploys' have been closed, ie. not signing the NIP. and your right not to incriminate yourself. IIRC without a frontal clear and un-enhanced photo it is still possible to get cases dropped on lack of evidence against the driver. As for asking for callibration proof, cops are wise to this and I'm sure that certificates can be 'produced' when asked for...

Do the maths and work out what the long term costs are gonna be, then, as metioned above, sell the points. Not as daft an idea as it sounds. It does happen a lot. may cost a pretty penny though.

You have my sympathy.

John

excuse me if i say this is COMPLETE BOLLOX.

I myself tried this in 2000.

I got the forms sent back to me 4 times cos I wouldnt send them in. Each time I was threatened and told that to fill the form in insnt incriminating yourself (!).


Eventually, two police came to my place of work and interviewed me for 90 minutes. They travelled 30 miles each way to do this!!!

I got done 180 quid for what would have been a 60 fine - same points tho.

After the millions of fines from cams, not a single one has been successfully challenged in the court of human rights.

You cant fight the system. You are basically shagged. Live with it, sadly.

The only get out I thought of, is get your wife an OLD OLD car. If she is caught again, you simply dump it, and claim that you sold it a day before the cam event to someone, who it turns out, gave you a flase adress. this way, unless your pic includes the face, you lose just the crappy car, and cant prove its you.


atb

steve

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris_R
it's illegal for the police to force a confession, so if they were camera's don't tell them who was driving. you'll prolly get a few demanding letters, but they'll give up if you keep telling them that you can't reveal the driver. There's also a European law that says that it's your right not to incriminate yourself. Just say you can't tell them who was driving the car as you "may" incriminate your self.

---

they just ignore this. Everyone tries it - they are not daft.

atb

steve

quote:

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Originally posted by Donners90
Ask the police to provide a calibration certificate for that camera, to prove that the speed sensing equipement was functionning correctly, and accurately sensing/recording the speed. Generally that sort of equipement should be calibrated once, twice, maybe more times a year. If they can't, then how can the prove that the speed it showed it is correct!? It's worth a go... You may get lucky.
HTH
James

---

In nporthants, you have to be doing no more than 36 to get classes, and you cant invite yourself on - they have to offer..... still costs 60 quid tho

atb

steve

quote:

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Originally posted by Peteff
The brakes weren't working so I was in a hurry to get home. Sorry but you look like going without a few meals to pay the fines. She may be offered classes instead of points under the new rules, worth looking at.

---

hey, thats blatant gusting!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
The only get out I thought of, is get your wife an OLD OLD car. If she is caught again, you simply dump it, and claim that you sold it a day before the cam event to someone, who it turns out, gave you a flase adress. this way, unless your pic includes the face, you lose just the crappy car, and cant prove its you.

---

If none of the defences or scams appeal to you, have your day in court and delay for as long as possible. It will take them months to process. That way the missus keeps her licence longer.

Something I have thought about recently...
Imagine the chaos if everyone issued with a speeding ticket simply refused to pay. 1000's of tickets a day, 10's of 1000's a week. The whole system would collapse within a few weeks.
Thats what the French would do if they were persecuted as we are.

John

The French never will have this problem...speeding tickets are only given to foreigners

As soon as my wife got home with the car i would park it in a nearby town and reported it being stolen a few hours before.
Let the police find out if it's true or not and they will have a problem giving a ticket.

that just delays the pain.

you still have to serve 'the time'.

atb

steve

(nto gusting, just replying to posts as they come up)

quote:

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Originally posted by spunky
If none of the defences or scams appeal to you, have your day in court and delay for as long as possible. It will take them months to process. That way the missus keeps her licence longer.

Something I have thought about recently...
Imagine the chaos if everyone issued with a speeding ticket simply refused to pay. 1000's of tickets a day, 10's of 1000's a week. The whole system would collapse within a few weeks.
Thats what the French would do if they were persecuted as we are.

John

---

this would be gusting tho....

indeed it would be...

imagine if you did this on TOL, the trouble it would cause!

I got thre points on the local dual carriageway doing 77 on a 70 zone.
Now because I was in the transit with no windows at the back it is a differant calss of motor.......the fine was 60 with three points for 17 mph over the limit.

So now instead of using the safe dual carriage way I blast the lanes instead!
Twenty five years high mileage driving with three speed fines Im doing ok considering the exposure to this occupational hazard. In SA the cops took bribes and credit cards for on the spot fines. Officials at the traffic dept got busted for scams involving traffic fine squashing and duff licences. The best thing about that system was the 180 rand fine DIDNT come with the points. We had a slush fund for paying fines that came out the taxbill so the goverment got thier money back another way.!!!!!!! But we now have to abide by the laws of the land we are currently in. Bummer

I have to add that some people have got out of paying the fine / points.

Dwight York did through a technicality and a very very expensive lawyer.

The hamiltons did, as they both drive hundreds of miles a week together and take it in turns, neither could remember who was driving. The judge had to throw it out.

So thats two people out of ..... oooh a few of thousand last year.

Cheers guys - thought of most of these i suppose - of all of them, buying students point seems the best!

Otherwise she taketh the punshment, but from clean to lost in 5 months?! There needs to be a change in the point system if the advance in cameras keeps going.

But how else do we afford all the shiny weapons?!

This is why the government are considering issuing less points on people's licences for Greed, sorry Speed camera offences. Their own estimates indicate that 120,000 extra drivers could be banned each year from 2004 on.

Thats an extra 120,000 government cash machines not producing revenue, they're cutting their own throats, after all we pay for 35% of all government spending, despite les than 5% being used on the roads.

Cheers

Chris

35%?! thats worse than i thought. So drivers provide 35% of all government revenue?!

and again,

look at my history on TOL

I think I gave more than I got

atb

steve

quote:

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Originally posted by JoelP
indeed it would be...

imagine if you did this on TOL, the trouble it would cause!

---

No

Thats totally wrong

I dont have it to hand, but my son has a leaflet from business studies on government revenue and spending.

The total budget is approx 650 billion. Car taxes - and this is a vague recollection - were in the region of 70 billion. Thats fuel as well

atb

steve

ps to mikeR

those loopholes are all closed, and prob cost 1000's of pounds to defend.


further PS

all people banned prob cant work, so instead of getting 60 quid fines, blair ends up paying more than that in benefit.

quote:

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Originally posted by JoelP
35%?! thats worse than i thought. So drivers provide 35% of all government revenue?!

and again,

---

The motorist is a valuable revenue source, granted. But its the points that really stick in my throat. As it is you can get a speeding ticket every year and never lose your licence, but all the while the insurance companies have you loaded. The £60 fine is insignificant compared to what you will pay in increased premiums.
I'd like to see much heavier fines without the points, I think some european countries do this...

yeah, i'd much rather a big fine and no points... i got 6 already so i gotta avoid more at all costs!

errm, have you considered trying not breaking the law?

[ducks and runs]

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeR
errm, have you considered trying not breaking the law?

[ducks and runs]

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Its quite an interesting subject this. We as a nation decide what we feel is acceptable and base our laws on that. We didn't feel hanging was acceptable and stopped it. It seems lots of people don't like the way we police speeding, yet, nothing is done about it.