King Cannute What planet is the UK Government on ?
britishtrident - 26/12/10 at 10:44 AM
We have just had the worst December for 100 years everything has ground to a halt so what do the UK Government do ? ministers say "Airports
should be fined for disruption".
As a former BAA employee I know from the inside how much effort BAA and other airport operators invests in snow clearance equipment, you can
justify preparing for the kind of severe winter you get once in ten or even twenty years but not once in 100years. Countries like Finland and
Austria are prepared for worse winter weather than we get but even they are thrown into chaos by extraordinary conditions.
So why is the Government making this ridiculous proposal well it looks to me like simple electoral demographics, a disproportionate number of the
people suffering air travel disruption are either conservative voters or potential Conservative voters.
[Edited on 26/12/10 by britishtrident]
jacko - 26/12/10 at 11:07 AM
Money in the government purse ?
wilkingj - 26/12/10 at 11:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jacko
Money in the government purse ?
BAH!!! You beat me to it 
mangogrooveworkshop - 26/12/10 at 11:21 AM
Perhaps we should collectively sue the government for the state of the roads and their failure to maintain clear roads during the heavy snow.
The M8 was closed for days and the forth road bridge got closed several times as good examples of this.
scootz - 26/12/10 at 11:52 AM
Because we NEED someone to blame! It HAS to be someone's fault!
Take the recent situation with Stewart Stevenson (Scottish Transport Minister). We had an incredible amount of snow fall just as the rush hour kicked
off. It wasn't widely forecast, but even if it was... folks would have still got in their mobile tin-boxes and headed out because few people pay
any attention to it anyway!
So a couple of wagons start to slip in this rush-hour snow and the roads stop momentarily... oops, now no-ones going anywhere as we're all stuck.
The media then descend on the scene and we get interviews on national telly with aggrieved morons complaining that they haven't seen a
snow-plough come past - completely ignorant to the fact that a feckin snow-plough cannot somehow 'magic' it's way through the miles of
queuing traffic to get to them!
Where were the gritters they cry... come on, what conceivable difference would grit make on 3 feet of fresh snow in minus 8 conditions!
Stevenson tries to talk sense by explaining it was an unusual phenomena and y'know, one of those things! But you just know he's a dead-man
walking. He is forced to resign a few days later!
stevebubs - 26/12/10 at 12:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
We have just had the worst December for 100 years everything has ground to a halt so what do the UK Government do ? ministers say "Airports
should be fined for disruption".
As a former BAA employee I know from the inside how much effort BAA and other airport operators invests in snow clearance equipment, you can
justify preparing for the kind of severe winter you get once in ten or even twenty years but not once in 100years. Countries like Finland and
Austria are prepared for worse winter weather than we get but even they are thrown into chaos by extraordinary conditions.
So why is the Government making this ridiculous proposal well it looks to me like simple electoral demographics, a disproportionate number of the
people suffering air travel disruption are either conservative voters or potential Conservative voters.
[Edited on 26/12/10 by britishtrident]
The weather around here was bad but, to be honest, it caused far more disruption on the domestic transport front last year - which makes you wonder
why the airports had such difficulty...
So while I don't disagree with the above, the other side of me says perhaps the government are pushing BAA towards the point where it's more
cost effective to stay open rather than shut up shop and do nothing...
stevebubs - 26/12/10 at 12:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Because we NEED someone to blame! It HAS to be someone's fault!
Take the recent situation with Stewart Stevenson (Scottish Transport Minister). We had an incredible amount of snow fall just as the rush hour kicked
off. It wasn't widely forecast, but even if it was... folks would have still got in their mobile tin-boxes and headed out because few people pay
any attention to it anyway!
So a couple of wagons start to slip in this rush-hour snow and the roads stop momentarily... oops, now no-ones going anywhere as we're all stuck.
The media then descend on the scene and we get interviews on national telly with aggrieved morons complaining that they haven't seen a
snow-plough come past - completely ignorant to the fact that a feckin snow-plough cannot somehow 'magic' it's way through the miles of
queuing traffic to get to them!
Where were the gritters they cry... come on, what conceivable difference would grit make on 3 feet of fresh snow in minus 8 conditions!
Stevenson tries to talk sense by explaining it was an unusual phenomena and y'know, one of those things! But you just know he's a dead-man
walking. He is forced to resign a few days later!
Scotland is somewhat different to us soft southern jessies...last year the local council didn't bother giving the go-ahead for the gritters to be
deployed until about 4-6 hours after the town had become gridlocked due to ice/snow....
MikeFellows - 26/12/10 at 01:12 PM
wasnt it BAA that turned down help from the Army to clear the runways?
so they dont want any help, but they cant do it properly themselves?
seems more than reasonable to fine them!
ashg - 26/12/10 at 01:23 PM
i might be missing something but....
the airport belongs to baa. if they want to close it and refund all the travellers they can whenever they like.
typical idiotic government thinking they can control something of no concern to them.
zilspeed - 26/12/10 at 01:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Because we NEED someone to blame! It HAS to be someone's fault!
Take the recent situation with Stewart Stevenson (Scottish Transport Minister). We had an incredible amount of snow fall just as the rush hour kicked
off. It wasn't widely forecast, but even if it was... folks would have still got in their mobile tin-boxes and headed out because few people pay
any attention to it anyway!
So a couple of wagons start to slip in this rush-hour snow and the roads stop momentarily... oops, now no-ones going anywhere as we're all stuck.
The media then descend on the scene and we get interviews on national telly with aggrieved morons complaining that they haven't seen a
snow-plough come past - completely ignorant to the fact that a feckin snow-plough cannot somehow 'magic' it's way through the miles of
queuing traffic to get to them!
Where were the gritters they cry... come on, what conceivable difference would grit make on 3 feet of fresh snow in minus 8 conditions!
Stevenson tries to talk sense by explaining it was an unusual phenomena and y'know, one of those things! But you just know he's a dead-man
walking. He is forced to resign a few days later!
The A80 was one of the worst affected bits of road along with the M73 joining onto it.
My way home, in other words.
I made it, using the otherwise deserted backroads.
As I drove along the snow covered hard shoulder to the last available slip road, nobody had gone there in front of me and nobody followed me. Drove
off the Mway, took to the back roads and drove home, through the deep snow.
In a 9 year old knackered Citroen. No hasssle, no drama.
They all just sat there whilst I got on with it.
People need to take more responsibility for what happens to them.
You know, like, there's snow on my street, so I better clear it, because nobody else is going to.
It's the same thing.
I'm no fan of the SNPs, but it wasn't Stewart Stevenson's fault.
JC - 26/12/10 at 02:23 PM
Think it might be related to the £1BN profit BAA made last year! Whilst you would never expect Heathrow etc. to be as prepared as somewhere that KNOWS
they will get snow like this every year, seeing farm tractors on the runway clearing snow seems wrong!!!
hillbillyracer - 26/12/10 at 02:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Because we NEED someone to blame! It HAS to be someone's fault!
That's pretty much the nail on the head there!
Of course there were things that could/should have been done but folk expect everything to happen the way they they want it to: I've planned to
do this, I bought a ticket to do this, now make it happen! Of course things happen that no-one can expect or fix at the flick of a switch.
So there's snow or ice on the road? Well just send a snow plough & gritter out & it'll all be gone & I can drive anywhere I want
is the simplistic idea many folk have but it's not that simple, there aint enough machines or drivers (& do you want your tax paying for them
when they're sitting idle for the next 5 mild winters?), then the process doesnt make the road as safe & clear as if there were temp above
freezing anyway!
This attitude is compounded by the media driven idea that someone must be held to account for anything that doesnt run as it should no matter the
cause. A lorry has jack-knifed & blocked the motorway, therefore all of them are at fault & should be banned from the road in low temps! Or
mabye it was a Richard-head of a car driver who did something stupid in front of him & the avoiding action the driver was forced to take caused
it? So ban all cars from the road in the low temps instead... you just cant fix these kinda things with some simple solution, it's very
complicated & influenced by a thousand different things at the same time.
Yesterday morning we found the water coming into the house had frozen, despite the pipe being in 18" & having a tap running in the kitchen,
so that's us stuffed, something must be done, the goverment must stop this cold weather! Or I could go to work where we sell pipe & fittings
(We're lucky there, most folk dont have this option) & ran a pipe overground from where it was running & cut the pipe inside the house
& tapped the new pipe in with a Tee-piece, water back on before dinner. No-one was to blame, life's just a bugger sometimes & we got on
& sorted it!
hillbillyracer - 26/12/10 at 02:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JC
seeing farm tractors on the runway clearing snow seems wrong!!!
Funnily enough it's what they use, but adapted for the job. County tractors have become quite collectable & there's quite a few in
preservation that came from airport duties, being well maintained & very low hours they're quite prized!
interestedparty - 26/12/10 at 03:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MikeFellows
wasnt it BAA that turned down help from the Army to clear the runways?
so they dont want any help, but they cant do it properly themselves?
seems more than reasonable to fine them!
I'm told it wasn't really the runways that was the problem, but the areas where the airplanes are when they are not on the runway, plus they
can't use salt etc because it corrodes the ally planes are made of.
mangogrooveworkshop - 26/12/10 at 03:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by MikeFellows
wasnt it BAA that turned down help from the Army to clear the runways?
so they dont want any help, but they cant do it properly themselves?
seems more than reasonable to fine them!
I'm told it wasn't really the runways that was the problem, but the areas where the airplanes are when they are not on the runway, plus they
can't use salt etc because it corrodes the ally planes are made of.
I was on the phone to a pilot who flys 767`s out of Germany and he said the whole of their Europe operations ground to a halt with lots of airports
affected much the same as Heathrow.
They turned down help offers by the airlines affected on the old health and safety excuse to clear the stands
jacko - 26/12/10 at 09:06 PM
Fit mud and snow tyres to the planes 
hehehe
interestedparty - 27/12/10 at 09:05 AM
Airport chaos in North America
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/12/27/airlines.weather/
Oh hang on, I thought it was only 'this feckin country' where airline passengers got messed up by the weather?