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Cameron
thunderace - 22/2/11 at 11:07 AM

anyone know why hes in egypt?
HES SELLING PLANES GUNS ECT ?
got told this today is his true?

nib1980 - 22/2/11 at 11:22 AM

nah he's there to meet the aliens they didn't want in area 51.

sounds like a typical conspiracy theory to me. no PM will ever be directly involved in arms sales

ed1801 - 22/2/11 at 11:23 AM

Although saying that, we do have a spare aircraft carrier, a couple of hundred harriers and soon to be an entire tornado fleet going spare.

phoenix70 - 22/2/11 at 11:24 AM

He was in Egypt with a trade delegation, include reps from the defence industry, and of course the press are having a field day with it (no mention of any of the other industries present in the delegation.... hmm)

[Edited on 22/2/11 by phoenix70]

Agriv8 - 22/2/11 at 11:26 AM

MY Guess he is selling old ones and CAMERON does not want to pay ebays listing charges.

Regards

Agriv8

Ninehigh - 22/2/11 at 11:51 AM

Strange, I'm sure the news this morning said he was in Kuwait

pdm - 22/2/11 at 12:06 PM

he's probably bricking it about oil supply so doing a bit of schoomzing with the next incumbent leaders...

Benzine - 22/2/11 at 12:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nib1980
no PM will ever be directly involved in arms sales


thatcher was massively

blakep82 - 22/2/11 at 12:46 PM

they've managed to pay back £3.7 billion of the coutrys debt in january alone.
don't agree with the scrapping of the forces though (not talking just ark royal, harrires, tornados and nimrods, looks like the whole lots on its way lol)

pdm - 22/2/11 at 12:49 PM

^ well they have a monthly surplus for Jan 11 but for Mar 10 - Mar 11 they have a deficit of nearly £150bn....to add to the £1 trillion we owe in total !!! drop in the ocean I think

blakep82 - 22/2/11 at 12:50 PM

christ yeah i didn't know it was that much! thought that was maybe 5% lol

flak monkey - 22/2/11 at 01:03 PM

smart51 - 22/2/11 at 01:07 PM

The national debt is £1,000,000,000,000 and growing. That's £16,400 each or £65,600 for a family of 4. Send in a cheque for your share. The interest on that debt is £119 million a day - enough to build 24 new primary schools a day, 365 days a year. Big isn't it? And it's growing at a rate of £460 million a day.

pdm - 22/2/11 at 01:17 PM

I know - it's just crazy isn't it, the figures are mind boggling.

as far as I can make out, these cuts won't cut even the yearly deficit, they will only reduce it to what it was a few years ago (although I am not sure to what)......

as far as I can see it's like me saying right I owe £100K in debts, I earn £20K a year but spend £30K a year.

To sort myself out I've decided to cut out non-essentials to bring my spending down to £25K a year

That approach isn't really sorting my problem though is it.......

And yet George and Co are trumpeting 4 years of the worst cuts we've seen in a generation will sort everything out - I just don't see it.

flak monkey - 22/2/11 at 01:25 PM

They are all a bunch of public school boy muppets with arts degrees. Not an ounce of common sense between them, let alone any idea how to sort a struggling economy out.

I dont know how to fix it either not being privvy to all the facts, and I dont believe there is a short term fix which they all seem to think there is. Its my opinion that a lot of the changes will have a more detrimental impact to the economy as a whole. The changes need to be more fundamental than scrapping/cutting a few things which will cause public outrage (armed forces budgets etc)

A1 - 22/2/11 at 01:32 PM

thanks labour...

flak monkey - 22/2/11 at 01:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by A1
thanks labour...


It started long before them I am afraid

Without stuff (not services, tangible product) to sell the countries defecit will continue to grow. Its simple economics. Trouble is the UK needs a really radical shake up and I dont think any of the current political parties have the brains about them to do it.

smart51 - 22/2/11 at 02:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by A1
thanks labour...


It started long before them I am afraid

Without stuff (not services, tangible product) to sell the countries defecit will continue to grow. Its simple economics. Trouble is the UK needs a really radical shake up and I dont think any of the current political parties have the brains about them to do it.


It broadly was caused by 3 factors, Labour being only 1. Keyensian economics has a principle where governments should spend less than they raise in tax during boom years, so that they have a pot of money they can use to keep up public spending during the bad years. Gordon Brown didn't do this. He spent a little more than he raised over his 13 years in government. Not neccesarily bad in itself.

Meanwhile, thanks to George "W" Bush, American banks started lending mortgages to "sub prime" customers (read people who can't afford them), and then selling the debt to banks around the world. Next, a global recession came along. The sub prime customers defaulted on their mortages in massive numbers flooding the market with reposessed houses. Banks lost a lot of money and made the recession deeper. We were left spending a lot of money and having no reserves to pay for it. £4 was being spent for every £3 raised.

The current round of cuts adds up to 19% of government spending, reducing the £4.00 to £3.36 while tax rises will raise the £3.00 to make up the difference. It will take 3 years at the current rate to match spending to income. When (if) the economy picks up with any speed, the tax rises can then be reduced again, perhaps in 2014 or maybe 2015. Just in time for the next election. We will then have £1.1 trillion pounds of debt to pay off. Looks like we'll all be working until we're 90.

TimC - 22/2/11 at 03:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Without stuff (not services, tangible product) to sell the countries defecit will continue to grow.


Yes, but the problem is we have nothing to offer in terms of raw materials. We're a small island and were historicaly lucky in that we found some coal, iron ore and some oil but what's left of it is generally very hard to get at. So, you then must look to how this country can add value to the product. Unfortunately, there is very little that we can do do that others cannot. The 'Bric' countries have caught up fast and are overtaking.

Therefore, we are largely caught in the middle. We don't have natural resources like Australia. We aren't able to add value to raw materials as efficiently as the developing nations. America has the same issue - their own economy is of such a size however that they are unlikely to feel the strongest pinch at the same time that we do.

quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
I dont know how to fix it either not being privvy to all the facts

I'm sorry Dave - I had to laugh at this. You mean to say that if you had access to all of the information that Government has that you could 'fix it?' I've no doubt that you're a very bright guy but some of the country's (and world's) finest minds will be collectively working on possible solutions - and struggling. If you can 'fix it,' you can have my vote.

Just thinking about the cuts a bit further. I don't believe that anyone has mentioned the possibility that they are deemed necessary in order to keep our heads above water. The IMF, EU and world capital markets all need to be content that action is being taken. If they are not, our credit rating will plummet and then we really will get a jolt when outside cash ceases to reach our shores.

For the record, I think that there are some very sound philosophical arguments around all of this stuff, but they won't help us in the short term - and do nothing is just not an option.

[Edited on 22/2/11 by TimC]

Sorry, just one more thing. One of the industries in which we still lead the world in certain areas is defence and arms. We are good at blowing shit-up. Point is, we need to make stuff to thrive and sell it. I don't believe that anyone at BAE, General Dynamics or whatever was contemplating that one of their customers might use the arms that they just sold them on their own citizens.

I will stop now. I need to send a CV to someone...

[Edited on 22/2/11 by TimC]

flak monkey - 22/2/11 at 03:27 PM

No, thats not what I meant Tim. More that I couldn't begin to speculate on how to fix it because I don't have any facts, nor could I fix it if I did! I am no economist (but then neither are any of the people in power!)... People love to bandy about ideas on how to fix things when they themselves have no clue as to the underlying issues.

I know what I mean....

Ninehigh - 22/2/11 at 03:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
The national debt is £1,000,000,000,000


That's not a number, that's a noise..

Maybe they should start talking to the people "we" owe that money to..

mrwibble - 22/2/11 at 04:58 PM

just think about this for a moment. if the state employs 50% of the people who vote. if you promise better pay and conditions, are these people more or less likely to keep you in power? to do this the state must borrow. somewhere there has to be private enterprise generating tax revenue to PAY for all this, and it is on the backs of the private sector who have been largely over legislated and taxed, the socialists have bought this countrys vote.

JC - 22/2/11 at 05:12 PM

Hey, but the good news is that the Government have vast gold reserves so that in periods of recession, there is a capital base to support the economy.............


Oh bu*****. Didn't some bloke sell it off to fund his spending spree when he came to power....
Still, he MUST have got a good price for it....

blakep82 - 22/2/11 at 05:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JC
Hey, but the good news is that the Government have vast gold reserves so that in periods of recession, there is a capital base to support the economy.............


Oh bu*****. Didn't some bloke sell it off to fund his spending spree when he came to power....
Still, he MUST have got a good price for it....


cash for gold got in trouble last week for undervaluing, and not paying enough out to people

TimC - 22/2/11 at 08:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
No, thats not what I meant Tim. More that I couldn't begin to speculate on how to fix it because I don't have any facts, nor could I fix it if I did! I am no economist (but then neither are any of the people in power!)... People love to bandy about ideas on how to fix things when they themselves have no clue as to the underlying issues.

I know what I mean....


Ah the joys of non-verbal communication. I understand. Now.