Thinking of changing my normal car.

I have a 306 td which is worth prob £2.5-3k. It sits on the drive all week as i commute with my girlfriend and by train to work in london. Thinking of replacing it with a growing classic that I can run cheaply, that won't really depreciate as is already rock bottom.

So far my ideas are a 205 gti or a mk1 mr2.

The 205 is a bit more practicle. Trying to find a standard one is slightly tricky these days, any other suggestions. The above cars can be had for around £4-500 mark..

Ned.

IMHO the 205GTi is very hard to beat

You want to look for a G-J plate 1.9 as this will give you the later and better spec interior, but without the restricting cat converter fitted from 92 onwards. If you look hard enough there are some good examples around.

Go on, you know it's what you want!

Cheers

Nick

I can confirm that the 205GTi 1.9 litre is a heap of fun - my daughter had one for a while.
Plus points: fast, excellent gearbox, handles well, servicing not too painful.
Minus points: bodywork is VERY thin steel - like pushing aluminium foil. Likely to have been mucked around by boy racers. Risk of being nicked by joyriders.

I can't comment on the MR2 - I've been in a Mk1 and it was fast, but never driven one. Servicing is VERY expensive, as the engine is so hard to get at (so may well have been neglected in the past).

David

quote:

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Originally posted by David Jenkins

I can't comment on the MR2 - I've been in a Mk1 and it was fast, but never driven one. Servicing is VERY expensive, as the engine is so hard to get at (so may well have been neglected in the past).

David

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E30 M3 - that would be my ideal choice. Hard to find in good nick (as are any fast cars at that sort of price bracket) but not hard to work on. Engine has to be mint though.

Failing that the MR2 would be on my list above the GTi. Had a CRX a while ago - again a very good car. Mk1 Golf Gti was great as well (put 16V in mine, not blistering fast but very torquey - i was trying to work out how to put the 16V VW engine in the se7en but give up in the end).

What about Supra's or Celica's? Depends what your definition of 'classic' is.

I drove an Mr2 around for about 2-3 weeks before i took it off the road, ripped the engine/gearbox out and a few other bits, before selling the shell on. (the bits are destined to end up in my Mojo).

I have to admit it was a really nice car to drive. Dead comfy, plenty of space for me and the G/f plus a couple of bags for a weekend away. I can't say that it was particularly fast compared to modern road cars, but it was quick enought to be entertaining. Especially on damp roundabouts!

The only problem with them is that you will be hard pushed to find a decent original with a fairly low mileage now. most have either sky high mileage, or are falling to bits. To get a really good example, you will have to fork out for it.

I picked mine up for £280 though, as a bloke had run into the rear side of it and put a massive gouge down the body work. Still mechanically perfect, just cosmetic damage. It's had 96k on the clock and the engine seems good to me!

Personally, if i had the money, I would go for something a bit more classic, and drop a modern engine in there for reliability.

Cheers
Andy

don't want to spend a lot of money, want to realise some from the sale of my current car to pay for locost and some other debts..

Not keen on mk1 golfs myself. wouldn't mind a mk2 escort, but finding a runner for that money is not going to happen! i'd also then be too tempted to stick my vauxhall xe in that and go rallying lol.

xr2's don't do it for me, neither do nova's. celica's are ok, but more expensive, as are newer mr2's. wouldn't mind an stra gte as i know the engine, but again it's finding a good one.

just been looking at nissan 200sx's but not sure its gonna ever be a classic, just an unknown..

Ned.

[Edited on 1/2/05 by ned]

true, the MK1 MR2 is not that fast now and for the money, it may be a bit tatty round the edges, but the handing is just lovely, and parts are plentiful.

Plus, and this hasn't been mentioned yet, it's engine is in the correct place and it's rear wheel drive.

plus, when the Locost is built, you've got a nice engine donor for the next one!

kelvin


and it's not French....

[Edited on 1/2/05 by Kelvin]

quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
E30 M3 - that would be my ideal choice.

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what do people think of this 205 and how much d'ya recon it's worth? I've spoken to the owner, so know what he's after for it and might be going to take a look this evening...
Anything to look out for on a 205 1.9?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9859&item=4523640052&rd=1

Ned.

Mk1 MR2 is a fantastic little car, but for £500 you are only going to by yourself a pile of rusty unreliability. You need to at least double that to get a useable one and double again to get something nice. Anything sporty and Japanese for this money (esp. turbo'd) is best avoided if you want cheap motoring.

Even a 205GTi for 500 notes is going to be a pretty tatty example, but at least they don't tend to rust (check for cracks around B pillars though!).

You might be able to get a Audi 80 Coupe for that money, from a time when Audi knew how to screw a car together properly.

im certainly not being antagonistic.I didnt know youve had one.

My E36 was fantastic, got it cos i needed a more family orientated motor. Problem with E30's are that theres not many about and some of the less mechanically minded out there thrash them ti within an inch of their lives and neglect to consider correct servicing / repairs. Maybe you were unlikely. Unfortunately a truly good one is probably out of most peoples reach.

What was your experience? I mate of mine had a convertible. I tried to warn him away from it without success, it was a lemon so i know its easy to get stung.

I guess any of the hot hatches etc that eventually will be classics are hard to find in good nick. Prepare to see loads Ned! Be patient.

scouring free ads, ebay and autotrader this is the best one i've found (that hasn't already been sold!). There is a 1.6gti for £400 that looks good, but it's in essex which is even further and I think if i had a 1.6 i'd only hanker for a 1.9 (if they're as good as veeryone says they are) and te 1.9 wheels look better

Ned.

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeRJ
You might be able to get a Audi 80 Coupe for that money, from a time when Audi knew how to screw a car together properly.

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Neddy

I enquired about insurance on a Nissan 200 sx and they wanted £1400 on 2nd car low milage and i'm 39!!!!

Check insurance too as this may bump up the total cost.

By the way whats a Mk1 MR2 'T' bar like for insurance?

quote:

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Originally posted by donut

By the way whats a Mk1 MR2 'T' bar like for insurance?

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Hi Ned

If you want a test drive in a MK1 MR2 drop me a line, I'm only down the road .

Chris

Neddy - had a 1.9GTI and LOVED it, so much fun to drive and handled fantastically. My ex had one tho that was a dog - the gearbox was shagged. You could even take it on a few track days for a loon about.

Know what you mean about the 1.6, I thought to myself I'll probably only ever have one of these cars, so I want the best one....

i'd go for the 1.9 pug if you can find a good one!!
plus you don't wanna be seen in a tarts car do you..however good the engine is.

Ned,

The car on Ebay looks reasonable fromt he pics (obviously it would need a close inspection before bidding/buying)

Things to look for incluse...

1. Damp in the boot - this is a common problem caused by water leaking through the tailgate lock aperture. Removing the lock and resealing with some sealant will cure it.

2. Noticing the glass sliding sunroof - this is sealed with an inflated rubber seal. The seal should deflate when you un-latch the handle using engine vacuum to remove the air from it. It's worth checking this is still functioning correctly.

3. Rear trailing arm bearings - park the car somewhere level and view it from the rear. The rear wheels whould be absolutely vertical. If they lean in towards the top, then the bearings are knackered. This is expensive to repair properly although you can get re-con rear axle assembly. At 124k if they are not gone already they willbe on their way.

4. Spare wheel - sounds silly, but those 1.9 wheels are much sought after and as the spare is underneath the car it's easily nicked (I've had 2 nicked). Make sure it's there and fit a security bolt that goes through the floor if you get the car.

5. Body cracks - check the sills and above the rear windows for cracks. There will almost certainly be some cracks, but they should only paint as opposed to structural. This often gives a clue to whether the car has been repaired before.

6. Front susension - the advert mentions that the front shocks and springs are original. These will be very tired by now and will probably need replacing (not expensive). Also check when driving the car for knocking sounds, indicating that the anti-roll bar drop links need replacing (£36/pair - 20 min job - huge improvement).

7. Gearbox - the gearbox itself is very good, but the linkages to the gearlever are a bit flimsy, so be sure it feels ok.

8. Engine - the achilles heal on these is idling, which is usually not good. This is often caused by blocked engine breather hoses and in particular the idle air bypass in the throttle body. A good clean with carb cleaner and a pipe cleaner can work miracles.

Other than that it's all the usual stuff 2nd hand car stuff, which I'm sure you know!.

I was absolutely gutted when I sold my last one to top up my house deposit money Particularly when the little pr1ck it ended up with wrote it off within 3 weeks

If you drive one you'll want one IMHO

Cheers

Nick

PS - not that I like them or anything....honest

buy a volvo , youll never go back ! , i couldnt part with my 740 turbo , even if it does 18mpg , fun tho when it pisses on r5 turbo

I'd find a decent Sunbeam Lotus. I've never laughed so much when driving.

Not so much forwards as VERY sideways. Mine had Cossie pistons and lumpier cams and cost me £91 a year to insure for 3000 miles.

I remember one journey where I had to hold back the tears when I got out; I was laughing so much!

A local chap has had 2 since new and although he's got a rather exotic car collection, he uses his everyday for work.

Neil

A friend's family and the 205GTI. Hahahaha

1st one, a 1.6. Brand new, just released, had it a couple of months and little sis was driving to see a friend. It was dark, she couldn't quite see where she was going but found the house, when she drove into friends fathers car!

Repaired eventually and kid bro retruning from another friend drove into a telegraph pole. Written off.

Second was written off by my friend shortly after it was fixed after his old man was pushed into central reservation!

ATB

Simon

PS I won't tell you about the rest of the cars!!

Thanks nick, just got back from maidenhead , 35 mins! Got a short test drive, but couldn't really have a proper go with teh owner and girlfriend in the car It idled well, pulled well, body was good and he's gonig to let it run on ebay, so I can have a think abut it. I also know what his reserve is.

The main things that struck me were:

Heaviness of steering (well, compared to a finger light pas 306!)
gear linkage worked, but generally felt fragile by comparison to my 306
when lifting off the power at low rpm, say below 2.5-3 then putting your foot back on the power, especially at lower rpm it kangaroo'd like crazy, maybe this was jsut needing to get used to a petrol agani, as my diesel won't kangaroo at all really, at least nowhere near as bad as this did.

Afraif I didn't read your points before I went nick, but got most of them checked, except boot + bootlid.

On the plus side the engine pulled well, good tyres, recent cambelt, every mot since new, some bills, sunroof mechanism was good, idled well and couldn't find any rust on it! obviously the owner had cleaned it and been over everything with back to black etc etc.

One last question nick, the front foglights, are they fogs or driving lights? on this car they came on with main beam, but i'd assumed they were front fogs.

were a few other rattles, but none that sounded serious..

cheers,

Ned.

The steering on my daughter's 1.9 GTi was light and easy, in spite of the big tyres - sounds like the PAS is 'tired'.

David

Hi Ned,

Sounds like a pretty reasonable car to me!

Did it definitely have PAS? It wasn't standard on all cars, so it may not have it.
That said, even without PAS the steering should only be heavy at parking speeds. Once on the move it should be very light and responsive.

The kangarooing is normal and something all 205GTi drivers have to master. This is caused by the way the ECU/fuel injection system cuts the fuel off on over-run and the switches it back on either at idle or when the throttle is pressed. You'll soon master the art of using the clutch to control it.

Let us know if you go for it!

Cheers

Nick

The guy did say it had PAS. When driving it was ok, noticed it being heavy when i tried to go round a roundabout at relatively low speed, and parking obviously was heavy..
Thanks,

Ned.

Just looking into audi's I found this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4523869989&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
which seems a good buy, might try and arrange a viewing. Will be more practical, lower miles, + better spec so should be more reliable. maybe too sensible.

hmm.

Ned.

Personally i would rather go with the audi as it seems a better car, if the chaps honest that it. Audi's are very reliable and go on forever plus if you still have it after you are board with the locost you can build a MK GT-R and use the Audi engine, running gear etc

For £500 its a bargain seeing as you could do the wheel barings yourself in an afternoon.

[Edited on 2/2/05 by donut]

hmm, i know what you're saying makes sense, but as its really going to be a short distance, weekend only car, I'm kinding of thinking I want something a little more fun, i've had a boring reliable car for several years and want to own something with a bit of get up and go. the higher milage of the 205 does worry me though, and like you say, the audi could be a nice donor for a project later down the line

Ned.

I can't recommend the 205 gti simply because the build quality varies so much. We had a 1.9 and a 1.6 and the 1.9 was fine but the 1.6 broke down all the time despite being newer, better service history and lower miles. I bought the 1.6 for my wife on the strength of the 1.9 and regretted it.

I also crashed my 1.9 sideways into a high curb on ice at 5 mph and the rear suspension just folded and it cost 1500 to fix.

I though the handling on the limit was dreadful. The lift off oversteer may be great on a track but on the road it's frightening. Unlike rwd cars that you can take positive action when they spin out, with the 205 you're just along for the ride. The problem (unless you like that kind of thing) is made worse by the car cutting fuel when you lift off the throttle transfering weight from the already light rear to the front. Never understood why they have such a great reputation for handling.

They look great though.

I had an opel manta 1.8s berlinetta before I had the 1.9gti and the manta was a lot more fun despite being under powered and I really regret changing.

BTW, have you considered an old porsche 944/924? I run a 944 lux as an everyday car and it's easy to fix, feels very solid (now I've put new shocks and bushes on it) and goes very well indeed. You're not likely to get anything usable for 500 quid admitedly.

Regards,

Mark

looked at a couple of cheap porsches on ebay, but the cost of running/fixing (for a cheap one) and the insurance is a bit out of my league for now..

Ned.

quote:

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Originally posted by ned
looked at a couple of cheap porsches on ebay, but the cost of running/fixing (for a cheap one) and the insurance is a bit out of my league for now..

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