Originally posted by steve_gus
strange that a major team funded to 100s of millions of pounds a year didnt bother to know the rule book and tell him not to pass a red light if it was on at the end of the pit lane.
collective responsibility id say.
If Montoya is so stupid that he dont know not to pass that RED light than I dont want to meet that idiot on a public road.
He get's payed enough I would say to learn the rules himself,besides it's in his and others interest to know the safety rules
Collective responsility...my a"#e
JoelP - 13/6/05 at 07:38 AM
they should've queued them up in the pit lane on the first SC lap, unfortunately that wouldnt have put kimi into the lead.
The safety car ruined his race, wouldve cost him a full lap at minimum.
shortie - 13/6/05 at 08:14 AM
They didn't que them on the first lap because the red light rule only applies when the SC is in the vicinity of the pit area.
Rich.
Fozzie - 13/6/05 at 09:03 AM
Collective responsability?
As even the most 'newest' ARDS rookie will tell you, if you get just one of the the 'lights/flags questions wrong in the
theory......you Fail. No ifs and buts! Its down to the driver to know this, not his pit crew to remind him!.......
Fozzie
andyps - 13/6/05 at 10:11 AM
Question 1 - was what JPM did dangerous? He didn't crash or cause on so the answer has to be no.
Question 2 - how often has he been involved in safety car periods? Lots, with the US experience he has, so they presumably don't use that
rule.
Question 3 - did Ferrari benefit from JPM being disqualified? Yes, two cars in teh top 3 from it.
The answer to Q3 explains it all really.......
Fozzie - 13/6/05 at 11:00 AM
Ferrari are my least favourite team, (so no bias there from me) 
But.....the rules are there for a reason, the various teams don't change the lights.....The Clerk of the course decrees what and when, all laid
down in the 'rule book' which he too has to adhere to.
Its not up to anyone else to defy/change that to suit themselves.
If it was deemed that the pit lane lights were on red unecessarily, then its up to the various teams managers to challenge that to the clerk of the
course. As I saw it, the protocols were proper. IMHO (and experience) of course
Fozzie
tadltd - 13/6/05 at 11:07 AM
I would agree that it was JPM's responsibility to stop at the end of the pit lane, but his team should have been on the radio to remind him to do
that. The surprising thing to me is that a team as professional as McLaren 'may' not have given him this reminder.
To an extent, there is an element of collective responsibility, because any professional team worth their salt makes sure there is no room for error
during any aspect of the race. That includes reminding drivers of obvious rules and regulations...
nicksertis - 13/6/05 at 12:53 PM
I think it's probably upto the driver at that point. He's in that seat for a reason, no one is telling him when to brake and when to turn
into each corner, so why should it be his team's responsibility to remind him to stop?
Top action race though! Would like to have been a fly on the wall at JPM's debriefing! (edit: not THAT sort of debriefing!)
Nick
[Edited on 13/6/05 by nicksertis]
steve_gus - 13/6/05 at 08:28 PM
what tadltd said.
Also, if they can have 12 people standing around a car in the pits just filling it with fuel, tweaking the wing and managing the jacks, they could
have someone reminding him about the lights.
for feck sake, they even hold up a big sign saying 'brake' in the pits!!!!!! so obviously the drivers are prone to daft errors. (i know that
brake is a prompt to help get the wheels off, but should they need reminding!)
In cart, they even have 'spotters' on top of the stands to tell the drivers where other cars are and if they are being overtaken. It doenst
take a leap of imagination to have had someone on the radio saying for feck sake dont exit on red.........
i dont remember if you can join as the pace car passes in indycar - the goal is to pit and get out way before they come around...... perhaps montoya
got his rules crossed over, and had red green colour blindness 
at the end of the day, what he did wasnt dangerous - but as F1 is so shyte boring it will likely be made into a big thing to spice it up a bit
atb
steve
Triton - 13/6/05 at 09:00 PM
The bangers at Brafield are more exciting than that Formula 1 farce and they only go round in circles......
Triton - 13/6/05 at 09:05 PM
For real action watch the TT on men motors....real people real action not tame 'puta controlled cars that play follow my leader for 70 laps!
David Jenkins - 13/6/05 at 09:16 PM
I've just been watching F3 on Sky - that was far more entertaining! Close racing, lots of overtaking, Senna was one of the drivers - his son (?)
Bruno!
Made me think that F1 could follow their lead - give basic rules of size and weight, and any tyres they like, but limit the air intake size like F3.
There's only so much air you can suck through a hole, and you can only get so much 'bang' out of a fixed amount of air.
David