Quite simple

lets see who really wants ID cards ?

[Edited on 30/6/05 by DaveFJ]

The cost alone is enough to make most people oppose them. Then when you add the fact that they want to set up fingerprint, retina and facial recognition systems it starts to become quite worrying!

Pete

the stated aim is to combat terrorism.
Most criminals have forged documents. ID cards wont be any different.
The september 2001 plane hyjackers had genuine documents. It didn't stop them

The database will be target no. 1 for hackers and eventually someone will get through.

My biggest concern is that there will be a biometric database of everyone in the country. by means of CCTV, they will be able to track your movements. I dont want a government, or other agency with that kind of surveilance power. Not because I do anything illegal but because I don't trust them not to do anything illegal.

Knowing the way modern goverments work I suspect the cost the citizen/terrorist pays will suddenly come down to almost nothing--- the cost issue is a deliberate red herring to take objectors attention from civil liberties issues.

It's just another symptom of the 'Nanny State' attitude of this government.

They do not seem to take our basic rights into account. They treat us like we are little children who don't know right from wrong and need to be told what to do at every opportunity.

Well I am an adult and I hate being told what to do all the time - I didn't vote for this government and now my fears are being realised...

Rant rant rant.......

Have a nice day everyone

Cheers

Mark

Can we please submit the result to the Home Office to show public opinion.

[Edited on 30/6/05 by andyps]

quote:

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Originally posted by smart51
My biggest concern is that there will be a biometric database of everyone in the country. by means of CCTV, they will be able to track your movements. I dont want a government, or other agency with that kind of surveilance power. Not because I do anything illegal but because I don't trust them not to do anything illegal.

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For the life of me - I cant understand why the rejection. Ultimately we will end up paying for them anyway! Whether it be directly from your pocket or removed from your salary as a tax - if this government wants to do it, it will! Recent history has shown us this.

If you aren't doing anything wrong - whats the problem?

[rant] This government is a little like "pop idol". The public get the right to vote - then they don't like what they vote for! Take gareth BL00DY what's his face and Michelle McGrannus where are they now - and who the f**k cares?[/rant]

Soon this government will have changed it's colours - not much will happen. The world will keep turning ce la vie... Make the most of what you have got and be thankful for small mercies!

ID cards will add NOTHING to the safety of citizens,on the contrary it will give criminals a pass through as the card will be accepted as correct information.

We have ID cards as long as I can remember and we used to need to carry them from age 12!

This never stopped crime in Belgium,on the contrary I would say!

The new trend for criminals today is to take the ID cards of victims with them so they can pay a visit later on when to much talking is done by the victims,very handy.

It's completely useless,a waste of time and money.!!!!!

quote:

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How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hellfire
For the life of me - I cant understand why the rejection. Ultimately we will end up paying for them anyway! Whether it be directly from your pocket or removed from your salary as a tax - if this government wants to do it, it will! Recent history has shown us this.

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What a f%^king joke:

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/simon_carr/article295475.ece

1. Its not the politicians you need to worry about. its the UNELECTED Whitehall Civil Servants who collate and feed the gov't their so called "facts" These people are as dangerous as the terrorist... the public CANT get rid of them at all.

2. As for being tracked by your biometrics... Well its a dam good street camera that can read your fingerprints from 20 yards! OK it can gauge your height. But sunglasses, a baseball cap and a hoody will stop most of that.
What you want to worry about is if it can be read by a RFID Tag reader, then all the shops know Who is going in and out, and passing by. They can then send you junk mail etc. and the Govt could tap into their systems and have a pile of info on everyone.

3. Its a Piss Poor Network and IT Manager who cant keep the hackers out. We do it, and keep 4000+ servers separate from each other as well, all within the same data centre. ie not just one firewall... but hundreds of them. Breaches are rare. It just needs bloody good controls on the changes made to the systems and firewalls. It can be done.
Breaches are usually down to Lax security and poor controls on equipment and users / people. Oh... and People Error

4. As for Big Brother watching you... They have been doing it for years. I have first hand experience of this, over something I said, about 15 years ago, in a short conversation on the phone. My Line and may mates were not tapped in the usual way either. (Believe me I know).

If that could happen then with Old mechanical exchanges, then with the modern digital systems its easier. When It goes ALL Voice Over IP (Certainly within the next 10 years it will be completed - My Best Guess, as BT is already building its 21CN network - read the Comms Papers and not the comics!)
Once its all IP based, monitoring will probably be a lot easier for those nice Graduate Chappies working in Cheltenham.

I dont believe ID cards will make any damn difference to my life.

However, I hope they will help to cut down benefit fraud and Tax evasion.. I am having to pay more for those who are effectively "stealing" my Tax money.
If it helps cut organised crime which is costing me the Tax payer an absolute fortune, then I am for it.

If they want to know where I shop, and which public Loo I use... If they just ask I can tell them and its a lot cheaper than tracking me.

Has anyone thought of the size of a monitoring network that can track everyone in a crowded street, using Biometrics alone... Shite!... Thats some optical and data network!.

I think everyone is getting well worked up over it. And I am getting RSI from all this typing, especially when I should be down the shed swinging my tools about and sorting the Viento.

So.. If you see a Headline in the papers... "Luigi Viento arrested in major crackdown" Then you know I was wrong!.. and that the cards Dont work.. and I made a cloned card with my real name in it..

Have a good night..

Luigi

How often in the past has a goverment/quango computer database ever worked properly if at all (they never learn). The chances are it will cause shed loads of greif for every body except the criminals that will make the most of the confusion and loop holes.

2. As for being tracked by your biometrics... Well its a dam good street camera that can read your fingerprints from 20 yards! OK it can gauge your height. But sunglasses, a baseball cap and a hoody will stop most of that.

i dont think its as bad as people make out. Yes, the system will almost certainly not work properly and cost a fortune, but thats par for the course with any government and most big companies.

The id card will have no bank details on it (correct me if im wrong) so its not too easy to get all the info needed for a sting. Retinal scans, who cares? they cant clone retinas yet anyway. Nearly the same for fingerprints.

As geoff points out, a combined id system for all governtment and local council departments would make it a lot easier to find out whos fiddling tax or benefits.

And as for big brother, i really dont care whos watching. I spent a good portion of my youth paranoid about whos watching me, nowadays i couldnt care less. Junk mail gets sent back to the sender (free) in my house, so its irrelevant how much i get.

anyway, sleep well all

they can follow every one they want?

WY SHOULD THEY FOLLOW YOU..??

if you talk about an database do you have an idea of how much records it will contain??

pfff....

and then Mrs / Mss should pick you out..

ohh dear lets see Blue eyes, brown hair between 180 and 190..


mhh still 2millions records left? blast!!
ok its male x% off a woman of 180-190

pff stil 1,8 million??

i would'n be scared? wy should they pick you and not another??

if they pick you its for an reason...

thats one thing for sure with such an huge database.....

it stops terrorism maybe not in the way of the acting ones but maybe it will be difficulter to deal in suchs cards..

that will result in less black money for terrorism..etc..

For the Nerds:

How long would an Server park on oracle/SQL need for picking you if you would gave it the query above? or just your id? and family?

then it will need to fill Do / Loop your spreadsheet....

pfff.... run out of memmory cant be only msg clients get.. (on 2 million records?)

i would like that every system is coupled
wy because its the easyest way of overcomeing paper hassle....

and what about they could tell in wich district the less people die??

what if you go to DLA they scan pass and you pay an gone are you? insstead of filling everywhere your Name adres tel. number you fill in your ID number...

Then online you can see activyty of you id
(to be able to track down usage of it wich isn't permitted etc.)


maybe an bad example but it could work
one number and for example your post code

etc. etc.

Tks

[Edited on 30/6/05 by tks]

quote:

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Originally posted by JamieG

quote:

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How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.

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(From '1984', by George Orwell.)

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All i have to say is

GRRRRRRRRRRRR

Watch this and listen...

CLICK ME

1984 by orwel was supposed to be a warning to governments etc

this one seem to think its the textbook.

Hmmmm

more things wrong with that video than can be bothered to list.

Most basic is it is hugely out of date with what the home office of disinformation is now saying about card usage.....

quote:

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Originally posted by timf
1984 by orwel was supposed to be a warning to governments etc

this one seem to think its the textbook.

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quite true fozzie, but no one ever thought that this was our countries only problem! They need to be tough on every issue, boot out failed assylum seekers, sanctions on the french for their various misdemeanours, more prisons, generally stop pissing about. hanging for some crimes, rewrite the human rights act (which muppet proof read that before it was signed off?! :mad

Absolutely Joel I just cannot see why we need ID cards per se!
I totally agree with what you say, but being continuing members of Europe, we will not be able to do any of your suggestions....the Court of Human Rights spring to mind. I interpret the governments reasons to the electorate for having ID cards as being primarily to counteract terrorism and the influx of illegal immigrants.

Fozzie