After the 911 attacks people didn't really seem to support the response in the long run.
When we find out who is responsible for the London attacks what should we do?
guess what I voted for!
Also sort out Mr Blair. Sorry to all you who like him. I hate the F***er.
daft poll to be honest 
obviously the hunt keeps on for bin laden and everyone downwards involved in such attacks. I doubt that there is a real
target to retaliate against. Its a war against hate really, but how do you stop people hating you?
History shows us that the softly softly approach does not stop terrorism. However setting an example of what will happen if a terror attack is
perpertrated does.
2000 years ago a citizen of rome could walk in safety from one end of the known world to the other.....why?.... because people knew that if anything
happened to them they would be facing the full might of the roman army. That's one hell of a deterent.
The answer lies somewhere between your two extremes IMHO
Fight in for peace is like bleeping for virginity
[Edited on 7/7/05 by clbarclay]
Who against and how would you do it?
To kill openly the leaders of a group, will only make them marters, to do it quietly deters the groups but leads to public outcry for doing nothing.
no one can win.
Still when needed then goverments can act.
Dan.
quote:
daft poll to be honest obviously the hunt keeps on for bin laden and everyone downwards involved in such attacks. I doubt that there is a real target to retaliate against. Its a war against hate really, but how do you stop people hating you?
If fire fighters fight fire, and crime fighters fight crime...what do freedom fighters fight?
one vote for let em off with a warning...
quote:
Originally posted by marcyboy
one vote for let em off with a warning...
I was a bit too young to fully appreciate the implications when the IRA were bombing the mainland a lot less socially aware.
Having watched the news all day and seen the images I feel truly violated. How dare they do this.
To be perfectly honest when the people responsible are found I would like to see their heads impaled on the railings of the Tower of London and left
there to rot.
As much as I am dissolutioned by this country and the way the government are running it I cannot shake the deep seated patriotism.
Todays events are merely a shot across the bows compared to the atrocities these extremists are capable of.
We are about to 'retire' our trident missiles. I can think of one last job for the to do.....
John
ok al quaeda or rather a group strongly associated with them have claimed it as their doing and we know this tanks to the germans like it has been
said you cannot target al quaeda with bombs as they exist as individuals or small groups in different countries all across the world not just in the
middle east ..
what some people have said not so much on here bot on other forums is that we should be alot stricter on who we let into the country in the first
place but they dont realise it is not alwas people who have just come into the country and infact previously it has bene proven that terroist actions
in the capital were infact the brainchild and actions of a group of extremists who were infact 4th generation born in england !! we cannot always jump
to the conclusion that it is foregners and i hate the way people stereo type .... you cannot blow them to kingdom come because there will always be
some other nutter who looks back on what they did and thinks hey thats a good idea ... you cannot kill every extremist psychopath because you dont
know who will be one
when you have a few minutes tommorrow, go to the store and buy a Union Jack Flag, and show your patriotism show the world that in the wake of tradjedy people are better than those who wish to hurt you.
What are "they" trying to reach?
A comparrison was made with the bombing actions of the IRA,but their goal was clear:getting independance from England.
What is Bin Laden (if he's responsable for it) after with this bombing?
That the western world will be turned into a muslim society?
I never have seen a clear explanation of why these actions are taking place and what the goal is.
I cringe when I see the might of the Western World arrogantly dismissing foreign issues. To either retaliate against, humiliate or disuade peoples of
different persuasions, firstly you have to think on their level and get inside their psyche. Only then can you make some headway.
As someone already pointed out, it's very easy to make martyrs of some fundamentalists, but by understanding them, it may be possible to affect
them on their level.
The current climate of terrorism can't really be compared to the IRA's campaign of the seventies and eighties. A lot of the attrocities
carried out by the IRA back then were no more than thuggery and extreme standover tactics thinly disguised as a nationalist cause.
The majority of the current middle-eastern terrorists are fundamentalists who take their cause very seriously and will go to extreme lengths (seldom
understood or appreciated by westerners) for their cause.
I never heard of any Irish nationalist who intentionally blew himself up, though a handful of them did manage to remove themselves from the gene pool
whilst laying or throwing bombs!
"What is Bin Laden (if he's responsable for it) after with this bombing?
That the western world will be turned into a muslim society?
I never have seen a clear explanation of why these actions are taking place and what the goal is."
I can't give a definative answer but the basic aim of most fundamentalists is to impose their vission of this world and the next upon the entire
planet . They think that the next world is more important than this one and that only they are going to heven and that they will gain enty for their
families as well if they die for Islam.
The trouble is that they are impervious to a negotiated settlement and will only stop when they achieve their goals . Under these circumstances We
(western culture et al) have two choices find the perpertrators and promoters of this mad ideology and kill them or submit . Me I vote for the former
Iain
the security services know who they are and where thry meet,but the pc brigade stops them,take your boots off and make an apointment to raid a
mosque??????
all mosques should be closed down,all known terrorists and their mates should be deported,they are wanted in other countries that use the death
penalty.
bring back the death penalty,boil them in pig fat!
Wankers......but what do you do, it be would like fighting in the dark with your hands behind your back.
guys, come on.. this is the responsibility of the commited extremists, with very little to do with most Muslims...
the "christian" armies of central africa murder thousands every year.
are the christians on this website responsible for that? dont think so.
as for the poll, i'd second someone elses option- somewhere between the two options.
A few have questioned the motives for the bombings. I think they are fairly clear :
Western countries should leave Iraq and Afghanistan.
America should stop supporting Israel.
<Flippancy engaged>When captured, put them in tight white t-shirts and leather trousers. Then send 'em to Brighton.
That should be a suitably humiliating yet amusing punishment. </Flippancy engaged>
Good old Freddy Nietzsche thought Christianity was not the religion of universal love, but rather people used it as another way of branding themselves
so they could disapprove and hate those who weren't Christians.
Into the 21st Century, one could extrapolate that across any mainstream religious movements. His arguments were born of his Germanic experiences, but
readily apply to any of the religious "armies". They're just looking for someone to hate.
I'm afraid that the ideologies are too far apart (Western democratic vs. a sort of eastern 'tribal' ) for there to be a meaningful
settlement. We could do with an all-powerful benevolent ruler (a la Machiavelli) who could set a few examples. This is akin to the Roman analogy given
above. Incur the wrath and it's going to hurt.
Mrs. Thatcher effectively tried that by sending in the SAS to Ireland where they descended upon the IRA like a plague and murdered their operatives.
Highly naughty and no doubt downright illegal, but it halted them and brought them back to the mainstream where their issues can be discussed
rationally.
Cheers,
Neil.
[Edited on 8/7/05 by Noodle]
quote:
Originally posted by Noodle
Good old Freddy Nietzsche thought Christianity was not the religion of universal love, but rather people used it as another way of branding themselves so they could disapprove and hate those who weren't Christians.
interesting that a steady 11-12 % have gone for option 2.
i think a lot would go for option 3-
"Find the guilty and try them, then put them in jail for a very long time"
I say take the gloves off and fight them where they live.
The examples are out there, the Isrealis do it with the Mossad, the Brits with the SAS.
It's a question of priorities and integrity -- the Neo-Conservatives have co-opted the war on terror and made the problem worse.
Instead of scouring the hills and mountains in Afghanistan and Pakistan, mopping up terror training camps in Southeast Asia and generally ridding the
earth of these idiots they go off on a ridiculous tangent wasting hundreds of billions of dollars and countless lives on yet another
"crusade" in the middle-east.
Saddam, in spite of being a murderous despot or perhaps because of that fact, was the leader of a moderate muslim country. Look at it now -- every
underemployed whackjob muslim extremist crackpot in the world now has a massive, live-fire training camp.
I say pull the troops out -- give them comprehensive re-training and start sending them all back out in groups of ten or twelve with a photograph of
their objective in their vest pocket and enough firepower and technology to make it happen -- no borders, no rules, no politics, no safe corner.
Cheers, Ted
However gratifying nuking the terrorist savages would be (and that was my vote), in reality they are scattered renegades and so are non-nukeable.
So I'll have to amend to option 3. Got to admit that I'm glad my country still has the death penalty for dealing with [edit] first-degree
murderers*.
* a more precise term than the original "mad dogs".
[Edited on 8/7/05 by pbura]
Fighting for peace is like f*cking for virginity 
I have trouble linking all this together, but see if you can wrap your mind around my concept.......
This "Holy War" has evolved from a religious action to a business. Every year thousands of supporters give millions of dollars to Osama and
his minions. You can bet after yesterdays blatant attack, contributions have spiked. Britain was victom to a "Fund Raiser". Beats selling
candy bars. 
The leaders are on a power trip. Imagine the rush you get if your followers WORSHIP you. They will do anything you say, including suicide, because you
tell them it will get them into heaven.
The poor foot soldiers have it worst. You come from a 3rd world country, have no education, and no future. You cannot even read your own bible to find
that the war you fight is wrong and your leaders are lying to you. You are evil and unworthy, BUT you can still get to heaven. You must suicide, but
the group promises to give your familly money, and you be free of this earth and go to heaven.
Do you really think Bin Ladin is hiding in a mud hut in the hills of Afganistan? He poses in from of a tarp or blanket to hide his living conditions,
with a rifle leaning at the ready nearby. But look, his clothes are clean, he has bathed. You cannot live hiding in a hut and be this way. Bin Ladin
has kidney disease. Do you think he has a dialysis machine in a back-pack? NO! He hides his surroundings because he lives in luxury while he sends
boys to die, and rakes in the cash to continue his little operation. Bin Ladin could be running his war from a beach resort for all the world
knows.
The people from this region need education. If they can read they will know what Bin Ladin does is against Islam. This will take time.
For now force is the only language these cultures understand. They must be hit and hit hard. It MUST become too expensive in both money and manpower
to conduct these terror operations. Funding Must be CUT OFF!
Our western cultures have many Muslims living happily among us, and we can teach the rest of the world that we are not evil, but this will take
time.
We must stand together. If you see something wrong report it. The best way to find these animal hiding among us is to know our neighbors. The weird
dark skinned guy next door may be a terrorist, or he may just be shy. As a group we can overcome any obstacle, but as individuals we connot stand.
Was on the news this morning....not every muslim is a terrorist,but most terrorists are muslims!
Another quote to think about.
"I'm a patriot, your a freedom fighter and they are terrorists."
Its all the same difference.
Patriotism is poo. Last time I checked we live on a round world
quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
Patriotism is poo. Last time I checked we live on a round world
interersting thread.
a week on, we find that the people that did this were 'ordinary born in britain' people by all accounts. They also blew themselves up with
the bombs.
How do you vote on that one?
I think that hating muslims would be a BIG mistake as thats just want the assholes guiding these puppets want. a civil war.
find them, and stick em in prison for life. they want death, they see it as glory. being shaged in the butt by bubba twice a night wont be quite the
same.
atb
steve
ps
if the justification is that they kill us as we invade their country, and kill their people (colateral damage), then this takes some explaining
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4678207.stm
[Edited on 13/7/05 by steve_gus]