DaveFJ
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 12:06 PM |
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quote:
You can have an idea of what you expect to see (ie reviews) and make an informed opinion.
Well if your happy to be told what to think then that's your choice....
Personally I prefer to form my own opinions....
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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pbura
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 12:31 PM |
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I thought the movie was remarkable and beautifully done, for the most part, and I'm glad that Mel is making a ton of money for putting his
career on the line to make it.
Pete
Pete
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 12:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by protofj
quote:
You can have an idea of what you expect to see (ie reviews) and make an informed opinion.
Well if your happy to be told what to think then that's your choice....
Personally I prefer to form my own opinions....
interesting argument here.
Have you seen god? - beleive in what the church and bible tells yoi, but not actually seen him yourself...
therefore he shouldnt be taken seriously in your rules.
atb
steve
[Edited on 2/4/04 by stephen_gusterson]
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timf
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 01:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Have you seen god? , but not actually seen him yourself...
to answer his type of question my old re teacher at school used to ask can you see oxygen ? no , so how can that exist etc
but does it really matter every one has their own theories just leave it at that.
btw if mel had made a simillar film about allah any think that he wouln't be in hiding with a fatwah on his head ?
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I love speed :-P
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 01:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by timf
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Have you seen god? , but not actually seen him yourself...
to answer his type of question my old re teacher at school used to ask can you see oxygen ? no , so how can that exist etc
but does it really matter every one has their own theories just leave it at that.
btw if mel had made a simillar film about allah any think that he wouln't be in hiding with a fatwah on his head ?
no but u can do tests to prove that O2 is there though
Don't Steal
The Government doesn’t like the competition
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timf
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 02:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by I love speed :-P
no but u can do tests to prove that O2 is there though
yes but you cant see it can you
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 02:31 PM |
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Try this.....
Here
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 02:43 PM |
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this just about says it all methinks
13. ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE
(1) [arbitrary passage from OT]
(2) [arbitrary passage from NT]
(3) Therefore, God exists.
atb
steve
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 03:28 PM |
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I preffered 14.
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 07:01 PM |
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oops !!!!!
See what I mean ,this topic appears to be a bit of a HOT potato!!!!!!!!!!
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Mel Gibson
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 08:14 PM |
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I kinda liked the film,my accountant thought it was good too
Mel.
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pbura
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 09:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mel Gibson
I kinda liked the film,my accountant thought it was good too
Wish I WERE your accountant, Mel...
I'd be out shopping Birkins rather than dorking around with a Locost!
Pete
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Jayce Lane
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 07:05 AM |
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protofj
Proof that God exists. I would like to add another one to the list, which I believe is the most accurate of all those posted on the "ahteists
from silicon valley humour page" site.
1) "All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved"
Proof for statement one, look at some of the responses to my previous posts
2)" They spat on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again. After they had mocked him, they took off the robe
and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him"
Proof for statement two, look at some of the responses to my previous posts. The above is a metaphor of many peoples reponses on this issue.
3)"You will be ever hearing but never understanding, you will be ever seeing but never percieving."
Proof for statement three, despite telling the truth how many have listened, heard, percieved and therefore understood.
If statements 1, 2 and 3 are true then God exists.
Lastly, consider this
"But I tell you that men have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word spoken. For by your words you are aquitted, and by
your words you will be condemned."
Hopefully this will spice up the day, and I urge you to seriously consider the above
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Peteff
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 09:57 AM |
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Sorry, you've lost me.
I didn't follow any of the arguments. They were like:-
1. I just farted.
2. It smells awful.
3. Therefore God exists.
Makes as much sense to me. Blind faith is what we are looking for, not rational thinking or reasonable explanations. You don't hear of any
Christian suicide bombers. It's not a patch on the Mad Max films by the way, Mel.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 10:14 AM |
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whatever you say, if god created human beings with questioning minds, why give so little evidence with which to come to a conclusion?
put it this way. If god was a product to be brought with a credit card over the internet, would you buy? You cant touch, smell, feel or get any life
time users opinion that the purchase was what it said it was, performed as described, or would eventually even be delivered.
The beauty of blind faith is that, if there is only a void, you will never know.
consider the marketing technique in religion. Its basically 'buy the product or be tortured FOREVER with fire'.
Not much of a sales pitch really. Or much of an ad for a forgiving god.
But then the bible was written by men, not god, so if he exists who the frig knows what he thinks. Its all second hand from people that 'heard
or talked to god'.
most people claiming that nowadays say it in court as an excuse for murder or insanity.
Like I said, if im wrong, I will admit that to god.
I just hope that heaven isnt run like christian churches - id rather have a void than eternity modelled on hyms, vicars and boredom.
atb
steve
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Mel Gibson
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 10:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
It's not a patch on the Mad Max films by the way, Mel.
hey pete,i'm with you.
Were the mad max films not just showing how society will end up.
Well if you brits vote for TB again it sure will
Mel.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 10:19 AM |
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"But I tell you that men have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word spoken. For by your words you are aquitted, and by
your words you will be condemned."
So on the one hand, beleie in Jesus and everything is ok.
On the other, yout whole life will be gone through with a fine tooth comb, for any little thing said out of line, then you are blown out.
Something like be the nices bloke in the world, but that time you hit yourself on the finger with a hammer and blasphemed wrecked it all.
organised religion is man made bollox
atb
steve
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Jayce Lane
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 12:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
"But I tell you that men have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word spoken. For by your words you are aquitted, and by
your words you will be condemned."
So on the one hand, beleie in Jesus and everything is ok.
On the other, yout whole life will be gone through with a fine tooth comb, for any little thing said out of line, then you are blown out.
Something like be the nices bloke in the world, but that time you hit yourself on the finger with a hammer and blasphemed wrecked it all.
organised religion is man made bollox
atb
steve
Steve firstly let me apologise for making that quotation without explaining the context. You see Jesus had just healed a demon possed man, when the
Pharisees (religious Jewish leaders of day) said that he must be Satan to have control of the demons. The reason why they had tired to pin Jesus as
such, is because they feared that he would take away the authority and power they had. (Not disimilar to large institutional churches who have lost
their way, and always seem to be offering more than straight forward christianity).
Just preceeding the text I qouted, Jesus said " And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but blashpemy against
the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy
Spirit will not be forgiven"
So you see the guy who is good and hits his finger and blasphems, can be forgiven!!!!!!!
However herein lies the dilemma, despite our best intentions we will falter, so how does God who is said to be righteous and fair, remain righteous
and fair when he forgives sins. Well its quite simple, his son Jesus Christ has taken on the punishment on our behalf. However there is a catch
here...... the guy who blasphems would have to have accpeted Jesus Christ as Lord of his life, so that he could be forgiven!!!!!
A question to you Steve. If organised religion is bollox, and everything else is made by man, that would mean that it is bollox too?
Cheers
Jayce
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 01:02 PM |
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Thanks for the futher explanation.
Part of justice is a measured response to a crime. Hell and Damnation is a pretty unmeasured response to a crime - and there doesnt seem to be any
lesser sentance if you fail to be riteous.
If, as the bible says, that one day everything will end, then everything is truly bollox.
and this is where you say with belief, its not.
atb
steve
[Edited on 5/4/04 by stephen_gusterson]
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Jayce Lane
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 01:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Thanks for the futher explanation.
Part of justice is a measured response to a crime. Hell and Damnation is a pretty unmeasured response to a crime - and there doesnt seem to be any
lesser sentance if you fail to be riteous.
If, as the bible says, that one day everything will end, then everything is truly bollox.
70 years of working to scrape a living, then you pop your clogs, thats pretty bollox isnt it?
But then there is always the afterlife.......
or not
atb
steve
Dear Steve
The reason why it would appear that the judgement does not fit the crime, is because it is not the scale of the crime that is important, it is the
motivation... The motivation is always putting myself above all things. "I" rule not "God" rules in my life. The fact that
we are in rebellion to God, is the driving factor. This is a very grave warning for myself as a Christian. God, views my sins with as much contempt
as he does the sins of a murderer.
In addition, knowing that you are as worthy as a murder, reminds you that your grace is gift. It is something given to you, not becuase you deserve,
but because you don't deserve it. It is something you cant earn, therefore you cant pull rank on anybody....
It is like being called into the office of the headmaster expecting lashes, but end up being taken for an Ice Cream.
The different levels of crime can be ascribed to the dedication that each has to the fulfillment of his own desires. That is why Hitler is the
logical conclusion of fulfilling your self interest. The more you pursue your self interest the more you do to satisfy your self interest.
Life is bollox if you don't have the promise of a life after death.
Life is not bollox for me... I have a commision to spread the Word, live daily like Christ, so that I may store up for myself riches in heaven.
So here is to bollox
Cheers
Jayce
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pbura
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 03:12 PM |
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Why Isn't the Evidence Clearer?
A thought-provoking essay
Here's a whole bunch of articles:
For
Against
'Apologetics', btw, doesn't have to do with apologizing for anything, but is a term meaning 'defending the faith'.
Just to point up that The Big Argument is effectively a draw.
FWIW, I think atheists protest too much. With the human condition being as absurd as it is, why not at least be open to possibilities?
Pete
[Edited on 5/4/04 by pbura]
Pete
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 04:01 PM |
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Christ would not have built a locost
he would have given the money away
Im signing off on this debate now.
But one final point.
It was said (I dont remember where) that a persons sense of self is important. Depression is caused by not knowing who you are, or where you fit
in.
Some people find their sense of self in their work.
Some in their family.
Some in their god existing.
Those that dont have a sense of belonging or self are the depressives, unhappy people. The kind that commit suicide, hate others and the world.
Your god is your sense of belonging and self.
Wether he is a feeling inside yourself or real, only you may know one day.
atb
steve
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Mel Gibson
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| posted on 5/4/04 at 11:54 PM |
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loosen up a bit lads
Get up go to work come home enjoy,when the weekend comes enjoy some more.
Life is so short make the most of it.
Mel.
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Jayce Lane
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| posted on 6/4/04 at 07:13 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Some people find their sense of self in their work.
Some in their family.
Some in their god existing.
Those that dont have a sense of belonging or self are the depressives, unhappy people. The kind that commit suicide, hate others and the world.
Your god is your sense of belonging and self.
Wether he is a feeling inside yourself or real, only you may know one day.
steve
Dear Steve
I would firstly like to commend you on your level headed approach to this topic. Many others have not been as considerate or serious.
I can not dispute with you that some people find themselves in their work, family, and their God.
However, tell me what will happen to you when you loose your work, or when your family is killed in a motor car accident. We dont all commit
suicide surely, and dont all blame the world for it.
Your explanation does not include the aspect of evil or the foundation there of... Hitler I am sure found meaning or himself in what he did. You may
argue that he was depraved therefore his actions.
I will agree with you, but it was becuase he pursued his own interests to the ulitmate conclusion, he had failed to admit that GOD is in charge of all
and therefore "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of GOD, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do
what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife,
deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderes, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful: they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their
parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. All though they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve
death, they not only continue to do these very things, but also approve of those who practise them."
Actually, this sounds chilling close to the Axis powers of WW 2.
Steve,
In conclusion, Christianity is not forced on anyone. No where is it ever stated that we should force people to join. Christianity is about choice.
The choice to accept Jesus Christ into your life and the choice not to. Each having their own consequences.
I have done what I have been charged with. I only pray that I have done it accurately without adding or taking away from the gospel. And I will
pray, that for all of those who have heard (read) these threads that some will come to hear with their hearts as well.
By the way MEL,
One cannot always take it easy in life, and live for the weekend, or the moment. Death is the great equaliser. Living for the moment is a fallacy.
How does a homeless person live for the moment, or a person who has seen her family slaughtered in front of her, in the name of war, live for the
moment. 
Cheers
Jayce
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