blakep82
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 09:30 PM |
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who knows about fire regulations?
had a fire drill at work the other day. worst organised thing ever really.
its a 3 floor building, bottom floor, at ground level, has 3 fire exits. one at the front door in the middle of the building, and one at each end of
the building.
the 1st and 2nd (or 2nd and 3rd?) floors only have one fire exit, which is down the stairs to the one at the front door at the middle of the
building.
i'm pretty sure this isn't right. if there happens to be a fire at the bottom of the stairs, 2/3 of the building are pretty screwed.
also, we recently had a girl in a wheelchair start there. she has an electric wheelchair, so is very heavy. the same time as she started, some
evacuation chairs, like these were put on the walls at the top of the
stairs, with little signs stuck on saying "Do Not Use" then in small letters at the bottom, "no one has been trained in using
them"
this girl has been working on the middle floor, so surely in the even of a real fire, there's going to be problems (obviously common sense
prevails, and the chairs will be used, training or no training, but thats not really the point)
is this very illegal? it doesn't seem right to me
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austin man
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 09:57 PM |
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a fire risk assessment should be carried out by law. The disabled lady and any others with mobility / sensory imparments should be catered for in this
assessment . Generally a buddy system is adopted so some one take on a role of responsibility fos the disabled. General rule is they are the last to
leave to reduce congestion and ensure the evacuation isnt impeded. Your points should be raised somewhere in the evacuation report to highlight
potential risks and allow controls to be put in place
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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McLannahan
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 09:57 PM |
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Reminds me of "The Office" episode when they left the disabled girl on the stairs as it was too much hassle...
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 10:08 PM |
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This falls under two categories.
Fire Reform, and DDA (Disability Discrimination Act). Both pretty serious.
The fire risk assessment should identify a means of escape for wheelchair users, even if this is a refuge area in a pressurised stairwell, where they
should wait for the fire brigade or colleagues to lift them out.
The new Fire Reform specifies requirements for refuge areas, as well as reviewed signage and training requirements. If you have a building /
facilities manager in your building, then they should know all about this. If they dont, then you need to escalate it, IMO.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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MikeR
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 10:10 PM |
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I was trained as a fire marshal by a previous company, but i'm not legally qualified to answer.
I think you must have more than one exit & the exits must have the ability to evacuate the staff. So 10,000 people going through a single or two
single doors is not allowed.
If you want a bit of advice, phone your local fire brigade. They'll soon be round to do a check and make sure everything is ok if what you tell
them isn't allowed.
In my previous place, we had two floors, upper floors had the front main exit, exit to another building + two rear exits (which where notionally
dedicated to them). The ground floor staff had the front exit, exit to another building, two dedicated rear exits and the stairwells for the upper
floors. Disabled staff could either go down the stairs or go into another part of the building (we had physically separate buildings connected
together). Not sure if we had emergency wheelchairs).
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blakep82
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 10:17 PM |
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cheers guys. yeah, the facilities manager guy is a bit of a knob. one girl mentioned to him the water coming out the cold water tap was actually hot
one day, but not hot enough to kill germs etc, and mentioned legionairs (sp?) he laughed at her, then she caught him slagging her off and bitching
about her to 2 people later that day (she actually heard the word legionairs, so wasn't paranoid)
the place has been there for over 10 years, so i can't beleive its illegal, but with no secondary escape routes, i can't see its legal
either. weird
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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iank
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 10:23 PM |
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Better to tell the fire brigade anonymously rather than him then.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 10:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
cheers guys. yeah, the facilities manager guy is a bit of a knob. one girl mentioned to him the water coming out the cold water tap was actually hot
one day, but not hot enough to kill germs etc, and mentioned legionairs (sp?) he laughed at her, then she caught him slagging her off and bitching
about her to 2 people later that day (she actually heard the word legionairs, so wasn't paranoid)
the place has been there for over 10 years, so i can't beleive its illegal, but with no secondary escape routes, i can't see its legal
either. weird
Well, under the control of Legionnaires disease regulations (Yes they do exist - enforced by the HSE) there are specific water temperatures the water
needs to meet, depending on the installation.
Sounds to me like a typical case of "Lets promote this guy to Facilities Manager, because he seems to know a little bit about bleep all"
syndrome. Unfortunately, thats quite common in the building services industry. I hate to say it, but ive found that most really bad
FM's are usually former IT people.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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stevebubs
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 10:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
I hate to say it, but ive found that most really bad FM's are usually former IT people.
There's normally a reason they're not in IT anymore...
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l0rd
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 10:52 PM |
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You didn't hear it from me and you don't know who i work for!!
I am a trained Fire Marshal at my workplace. There are several issues that I have raised for the building that i work but 2 years now and still
nothing changed.
There are 3 exits in the building on the first floor. All of the fire exits takes you straight out to a busy car park so if you make it safely away
from the fire, you are in risk of being run over.
The disabled entrance is the rear fire exit. :O:O:O
The fire exit for the second floor is a chain ladder that you lower from a window. or if you can make it down the stairs you can use one of the exits
on ground floor.
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blakep82
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| posted on 16/10/10 at 11:59 PM |
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lol a chain ladder?! 
ah, that was anohter thing, the meeting point is at the back of the building (so you walk round from the front) and end up 5m from the building, up
against a fence so you can't get further away
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 17/10/10 at 12:19 AM |
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Sounds like you need another "drill" with the aid of some petrol and a match... See how quickly improvements are made when they get sued
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 17/10/10 at 12:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by McLannahan
Reminds me of "The Office" episode when they left the disabled girl on the stairs as it was too much hassle...
The office block I work in has the stairwell areas designated as refuges. Anyone in a wheelchair is *supposed* to be left there and immediately after
the building is evacuated, during the marshalls' check of every floor, they will be evacuated.
One unusual aspect is that the building security is high level (swipe card and PIN, turnstile access, 24 hour guards, all staff and unaccompanied
visitors background security checked), so for a fire alarm we leave the building, but for a bomb alert we stay in the building and move away from the
windows, on the basis that the bomb is most likely to be outside.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 17/10/10 at 01:04 AM |
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Interesting, are you allowed to say what you do?
And no I don't mean "I'm in charge of printer ink"
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 17/10/10 at 06:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
lol a chain ladder?!
ah, that was anohter thing, the meeting point is at the back of the building (so you walk round from the front) and end up 5m from the building, up
against a fence so you can't get further away
Chain ladders are still used as a means of emergency Egress. Not sure how this complies with the disability discrimination act or caters for the
elderly or infirm, but they are still acceptable use as an installation. However, if the day ever came whereby people couldnt use this method for any
reason, the commpany would be on some dodgy ground.
The biggest exploitation of the health and safety legislation on both sides (Prosecution and Defence) is the phrase "Where is as reasonably
practicable". This means that if it would cost a company £150k to install a full fire escape staircase, then it would not become
"Reasonable Practicable".
I think as long as the fire risk assessment is carried out correctly, and some common sense applied, then you cant go far wrong. The company
directors need to understand that it is necessary to invest in safety signage and safety measures to stay out of jail.
Ninehigh, normally, you can step forward and put yourself forward as a fire marshal. Some companies pay extra for this, and the duties are normally
fairly simple. The difficulty comes when you need access to secure areas (Like L0rd said) to sweep the building, which are not normally part of your
job, but then the company should make allowances for this and vet accordingly.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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balidey
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| posted on 17/10/10 at 08:33 AM |
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I would speak to the Fire Brigade directly.
As for 'works stories', we had a fire in our factory last year, the offices are joined to the factory. We all evacuated and the Fire
Brigade got it under control. After a while our works Fire Officer told us the office workers could go back inside.
Then the Fire Brigade shouted at us to get out as the building was still on fire !!!
Earlier this year we all had a lecture from the Fire Officer telling us how no one was to go back inside unless told its safe by the Fire brigade
because..... some people went back inside when they shouldn't have..... we were told this by HIM
Dutch bears have terrible skin due to their clogged paws
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l0rd
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| posted on 17/10/10 at 01:12 PM |
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the last and funniest of all is that i need to keep online registers of who is at the classroom during my sessions.
In case of a fire, you need to evacuate the building.
How do i know who i had in the class? Do i need to get my computer with me or is it as simple as keeping a paper based register?
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 17/10/10 at 09:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Interesting, are you allowed to say what you do?
And no I don't mean "I'm in charge of printer ink"
Nothing spectacular. It is just a design office, but we work on projects for the civil nuclear industries and hence much of our information is
restricted or secret, as it could be of interest to terrorists.
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