mcerd1
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 10:36 AM |
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OT - engineering drawings
Does anyone know any good guides / reference books etc for creating proper drawings?
Ideally something that covers general engineering and structural drawings (not architectural) and thats correct to the current EN and ISO
standards.
I learnt do do them by hand to BS308 back in the dark ages (so I'm a little out of date), however I'm finding most younger folk can use
the CAD software fine, but don't have a clue when it comes to making a good drawing 
Cheers
-Robert
[Edited on 3/3/2016 by mcerd1]
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Dick Axtell
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 10:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
....I'm finding most younger folk can use the CAD software fine, but don't have a clue when it comes to making a good drawing
Possibly because they didn't start with BS 308? Was always a good grounding to start with.
Work-in-Progress: Changed to Zetec + T9. Still trying!!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 11:08 AM |
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^^^ I'm sure that's the case, but somehow I've got to educate them - if possible without having to go back to the out of date
standards.....
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Doctor Derek Doctors
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 11:15 AM |
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BS308 was replaced with BS8888 which most places (try) to work to now.
What about this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manual-Engineering-Drawing-Specification-Documentation/dp/0080966527/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1457003707&sr=
1-1&keywords=bs8888
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tegwin
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 11:23 AM |
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I was taught to draw as an apprentice at Rolls Royce with a pencil and rule... (never a ruler!) Just copying out existing drawings the company uses is
probably the best way to learn how its done... Every company I have worked for has wanted their drawings done slightly differently... all are valid
methods but senior engineers seem to want things done "their" way...
Start with copying drawings and then give the youths a simple (ish) object and get them to draw it with correct dimensions..... and correct
tollerances on the dimensions if your feeling cruel!
To a point its just practice and being able to think in 3D. So many students draw amazing stuff in CAD which could never be made in a million
years.... You need to understand how something is going to be made to be able to draw it properly.
[Edited on 3/3/16 by tegwin]
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Sam_68
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 11:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
I was taught to draw as an apprentice at Rolls Royce with a pencil and rule... (never a ruler!)
Grrr... you don't draw with a rule, you measure with it.
People who pick up my scale rule and use it to draw straight lines against scratch their nails down the very blackboard of my soul! 
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tegwin
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 11:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
I was taught to draw as an apprentice at Rolls Royce with a pencil and rule... (never a ruler!)
Grrr... you don't draw with a rule, you measure with it.
People who pick up my scale rule and use it to draw straight lines against scratch their nails down the very blackboard of my soul!
This was Rolls Royce...the most backwards and shoddy company ive had the pleasure of working for...
Slightly OT but it brings back memories of a couple of apprentices who were so terrible at everything.... In basic machining they constantly had to
remake parts as they could never get anything within tolernace... One lad in particular repeatedly left the machine on auto-feed and wandered
off...resulting in a really unplesant noise when the tool found the chuck! The same lad got smashed in the face by a chuck tool when the instructor
found it left in his chuck AGAIN and launched it across the workshop... I think the lad eventually got the boot for misconduct when he tried to
moon some local girls out of a moving car window and fell out when he should have been at work...
[Edited on 3/3/16 by tegwin]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 11:44 AM |
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^^^ I guess that makes me the awkward engineer then 
One problem I'm having is that some of them are coming in as "experienced" draftsmen who apparently know it all...
So a handy reference book would be nice when trying to explain why it needs re-drawn
(not saying I always follow the standards perfectly, but there is a big difference between an easy to read, nicely laid out drawing and one with all
the views crammed in on some weird scale and random details / sections all over the place, often missing the important dimensions or notes )
BS8888 is ok, but something simpler with less reference to other standards would be nice, the old BS 308 had a student edition that was quite good but
its never been replaced as far as I know
[Edited on 3/3/2016 by mcerd1]
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Sam_68
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 12:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwinI think the lad eventually got the boot for misconduct when he tried to moon some local girls out of a moving
car window and fell out when he should have been at work...
That's harsh!
I think I'd have kept him on just for entertainment value!
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tegwin
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 12:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by tegwinI think the lad eventually got the boot for misconduct when he tried to moon some local girls out of a moving
car window and fell out when he should have been at work...
That's harsh!
I think I'd have kept him on just for entertainment value!
He was a massive moron... was known as dangleberry as he enjoyed dropping his keggs and usually hadn't wiped properly...
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Sam_68
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 12:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
He was a massive moron... was known as dangleberry as he enjoyed dropping his keggs and usually hadn't wiped properly...
That must have made it especially pleasant for the girls he mooned out of a car window!? 
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Badger_McLetcher
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 05:32 PM |
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As a "new" engineer (been an engineer for 4 years now) I found that Uni completely failed to prepare me to create drawings, especially
regarding GD&T. I'd echo that giving people drawings to look at is a good start, but practice is the best way and it's important to
explain why something is that way. I did the IMechE GD&T course just before Christmas and that helped an immense amount.
If disfunction is a function, then I must be some kind of genius.
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bi22le
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 07:25 PM |
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I was lucky enough to have a copy of BS8888 at my old work place.
This only states how you annotate a drawing. Not why when or where. This is an art that comes with practice and experience of working with a machine
shop or fabricators. Some of the dimensions i add to my drawing are for manufacturing, some for QA.
Slash cut across tubes is one i did today. Noting that its a cut in a certain place at an angle is one thing, QA that it provides the internal tube
dimensions at its face is something completely different.
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Andybarbet
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| posted on 3/3/16 at 11:40 PM |
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I started at 16 years old in 1989, at an old engineering company. I spent the first 6 months re-drawing & converting all the drawings into metric,
that was enough to teach me how things were drawn. As a side bonus, it also taught me how to convert between metric & imperial in my head which
has come in useful over the years.
Ive recently started using autocad (about 12 months now) after 15+ years out of design/engineering & I am really enjoying it.
I would still prefer to be physiacally drawing it all but autocad makes repetitive items a doddle :-)
Give a man a fish & it will feed him for a day, give him a fishing rod & you've saved a fish.
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nero1701
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| posted on 4/3/16 at 09:51 PM |
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I teach Engineering drawin for technicians and I also teach Autocad,
have a look at the btec specification for the units..
First thin I teach the kids to do is sketch a cube in Isometric, oblique and third angle projection..
I Know..draw a box..
you would be amazed at the amount who take a week or 2 to be able too.
Then I move onto measurements, and the drawing standards that apply to them.
Engineering Drawning
CAD
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mcerd1
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| posted on 5/3/16 at 08:12 AM |
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^^ you'd probably kill me for some of my bad habits...
Is it just me that thinks alot of the new timesaving features in autocad actual slow it down ?
I've spent ages customizing 2014LT to make it as near to 2000 as I can make it (I hate dynamic input with a passion)
quote:
Originally posted by nero1701
I Know..draw a box..
you would be amazed at the amount who take a week or 2 to be able too.
Then I move onto measurements, and the drawing standards that apply to them
I vaguely remember having to draw a cube with a hole in it and some chamfered corners as one of the first things, on the old A1 drawing boards (back
in 1999) most of us got it sussed pretty quick, but a few really struggled
Mind you the guys that struggled were the ones who could do thermodynamics in their sleep
Then we had to design a few odd things and do the drawings for them by hand - and eventually they let us onto autocad (R14)
The next year they got all the drawings we'd done of our own designs and sent us to the workshop to make them - it made for a steep learning
curve...
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 5/3/16 at 10:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
Is it just me that thinks alot of the new timesaving features in autocad actual slow it down ?
I've spent ages customizing 2014LT to make it as near to 2000 as I can make it (I hate dynamic input with a passion)
..
I can identify with that.
Had cause recently to fire up an old Win 3.1 machine with acad12 to see if I could retrieve some old work.
I was surprised just how 'not slow' that old Intel 100mhz machine with 32k of memory was, and how few of the latest add-ons I use, if only
for 2d work .
Cheers,
Nev.
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