ned
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 01:53 PM |
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theiving paypal
Is it just me or have paypal changed their terms and conditions recently?
A buyer sent me a payment via paypal and it tells me because it's come from a credit card I have to upgrade to a premier/business account in
order to accept it!
If i do this, i'll be charge 3.4% +20p for every payment I receive in the future that's over £20 and 1.9% +20p for amounts under £20.
I have refused the payment and not upgraded my account as I only use it for ebay and I refuse to effectively be forced to accept being charged to
acdept payments.
No doubt paypal are trying to cover credit card fees or something, but it seems a bit naughty, especially considering you're now not allowed to
add a surcharge to an auction item for a payment method ie you can't add a percentage of final item bids to cover paypal charges.
This is directly linked ot the other post about ebay postage rip-offs as this is how people are getting round this problem.
The other annoyance is that in ebay, when listing an item, you get the choice to plaster 'this buyer prefers paypal' all over your
auction, but not to say that you only take debit cards only. I feel this is a bit misleading.
I know i have the option not to use paypal and just accept cheques, but this then limits the biddders that you're likely to get on an item. I
wouldn't mind so much if you were only charged the fees for credit card payments, but when you upgrade and are charged on all payments you are
presumably then subsidising all the personal accounts who don't pay any fees?!
It seems like they have you by the balls.
Ned.
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Dear xxxxx xxxxxxx,
You have received a credit card payment. However, to reduce credit card
processing costs for accounts that do not pay fees, the ability to receive
credit card payments is limited to Premier and Business accounts.
If you upgrade to a Premier or Business account, all of your pending credit
card payments will immediately be completed. With your upgraded account,
you will receive a range of premium features in addition to the ability to
accept unlimited credit card payments. And the fees on incoming payments
are low - just 3.4% + 0.20 GBP to receive payments. For more details, go to:
http://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside
If you would like to keep your Personal account, you may log in and refuse
this payment. Personal accounts may still accept payments funded with a
bank account or PayPal balance at no charge.
To learn more about PayPal's Credit Card Receiving Policy, please go to:
http://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help-ext&exloc=cc_pers.
Yours sincerely,
PayPal
--------------------------------------
[Edited on 9/3/05 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 02:46 PM |
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thats one of the many reasons i told them to stick it.
I always insist on sending a personal cheque on ebay now, that way at least i have an address for the seller!
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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andkilde
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 03:23 PM |
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Hey Ned
This has been their policy in Canada and the US for a while now -- cost of business I suppose.
Just to play devil's advocate from the buyers point of view -- I get REALLY cross when a seller advertises that they accept PayPal (which in
turn shows all the CC logos in the auction), then cancels my payment after the fact because they're not actually set up to accept credit
cards.
To get around the no extra fees rules I believe you can offer a discount for other payment options.
Cheers, Ted
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ned
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 03:37 PM |
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I completely agree with you Ted, if there was a way to advertise paypal accepted for debit accounts only I would happily use it, but they don't
provide that facility as far as I'm aware.
In future I will amend my payment methods info to state clearly paypal for debit accounts only!
Ned.
[Edited on 9/3/05 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 04:01 PM |
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PayPal are buggering people about something chronic !
Ebay are operating an online auction system which involves no input from either Ebay or PayPal BUT want a buyers and a sellers fee for using it just
like a physical auction house 
No wonder it's the fastest growing money earner
On a personal note I've had two ebay cheques clear our account on statement and I've waited a further 5 days to be sure of payment. Then
I've despatched the items only to recieve a letter from the bank the following day, with the cheques uncleared.
This means the bank then deduct the account. Very naughty, they claim it's post delays.
Fortunately both have been honest buyers who have since paid cash.
I'm now putting that despatch is 14 days after cheque is banked OR pay by postal order for instant despatch.
[Edited on 9/3/05 by Rob Lane]
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Kelvin
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 04:22 PM |
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you could also get them to 'pre-load' their PayPal account from their credit card, so that they have a positive PayPal balance to pay
from.
I always keep 20 - 30 quid in my PayPal account for this purpose and just take out 50 quid above that Kelvinat a time as thats free.
Kelvin
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 04:48 PM |
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Its cost of business and I accept credit cards but it gets fifty pence racked on to the goods price. The upside is the traffic that ebay has almost
ensures the things posted sell.
To stick stuff in the auction houses you get very little as the exposure is limited to the persons present. Ebays hits 8000 a week last count gives
you a higher view rate.
Advertising costs are included in it as is merchant services. To accept CCards as a company there is surcharges from the banks . In fact if I recall
you had to pay rental on the machine as well as pay for the dial up to the central server. So Paypal is no differant....................Just hope you
never suffer a paypal reversal...............
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Hellfire
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 04:55 PM |
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So to summarise.... we think ebay/paypal is getting greedy?
Perish the thought! 
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ned
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 04:59 PM |
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I think buyers are well protected, it's the sellers that are effectively charged twice, for listing & ebay fees, then again if using paypal
(run by ebay) to receive payments from credit cards for ebay items..
I think people just need to be aware of it that's all and make their own decisions about what they want to do.
Ned.
[Edited on 9/3/05 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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carcentric
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 posted on 9/3/05 at 05:34 PM |
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Ned said " . . . if there was a way to advertise paypal accepted for debit accounts only I would happily use it, but they don't provide
that facility as far as I'm aware. . . ."
I'd simply add a banner to my description section something like this: "PAYPAL IS ONLY ACCEPTED WHEN FUNDED BY A POSITIVE PAYPAL BALANCE
OR YOUR DEBIT CARD. CREDIT CARD PAYMENTS VIA PAYPAL WILL BE REFUSED." Post it in red about 36pt type, centered in a paragraph by itself.
If you want, you could also add an explanation - "PayPal fees on credit card transactions are too steep for me - I'm just a hobbyist and
can't count their fees as a business expense."
I'd feel pretty burned if I made a payment and had it refused unless I'd been warned ahead of time by the Seller.
M D "Doc" Nugent
http://www.carcentric.com
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need4speed
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 05:44 PM |
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You can always set up two pay pal accounts like i've done ( have to be diffrent accounts and credit card to verifiy)using the expensive on at
times like this with an added fee to help towards costs.
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bigandy
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 07:07 PM |
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That's exactly what I do! Seems to be okay for me.
Dammit! Too many decisions....
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 10:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carcentric
Ned said " . . . if there was a way to advertise paypal accepted for debit accounts only I would happily use it, but they don't provide
that facility as far as I'm aware. . . ."
I'd simply add a banner to my description section something like this: "PAYPAL IS ONLY ACCEPTED WHEN FUNDED BY A POSITIVE PAYPAL BALANCE
OR YOUR DEBIT CARD. CREDIT CARD PAYMENTS VIA PAYPAL WILL BE REFUSED." Post it in red about 36pt type, centered in a paragraph by itself.
Debit cards work in the same way as credit cards on Paypal, I was unable to accept payments made with a debit card until I "upgraded".
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splitrivet
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| posted on 10/3/05 at 10:24 AM |
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I agree its a rip off Ned but they are a business and a pretty lucrative one at that but I agree it is greedy.
Credit cards are great for the buyer but the seller always gets the shite end of the stick.I have to take credit cards in my business otherwise my
sales would drop 30% or so and I loose 21/2 % on each transaction.
The real greedy b*stards are the banks who run the credit cards who make money both out of the seller and buyer.
No doubt paypal has increased its rates to cover all the frauds they have to stump up for,so its the same ol story Joe Average has to stump up for the
bent twats.
Cheers,
Bob
I used to be a Werewolf but I'm alright nowwoooooooooooooo
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ned
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| posted on 17/3/05 at 09:38 AM |
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To update this post the item i was trying to sell that i had to turn down a payment for due to the above reasons, the bloke never sent a cheque :@
I now have another buyer who i asked to send payment from a cleared paypal balance/bank account, he payed by debit card (by my understadning this
means bank account surely?) and it has again told me it's a credit card payment and i need to upgrade my account!
there are no surcharges on debit cards, only credit cards to my knowledge, so why the hell are they still trying to rip me off!!
PAYPAL USERS BEWARE!!!!
edit:
I have now emailed paypal's ustomer service with the following message. I shall post the response here if and when i get it.
subject:
receiving debit card payments without upgrading to a premier account??
message:
I have recently received mesage that to accept a credit card payment i need to upgrade to a premier account. I don't wish to upgarde to a
premier account and have been asking people to fund transactions by a positive paypal balance or a bank account (ie by debit card)
Recently I was sent a payment that I know came from a debit card, yet I have again been asked to upgrade my account to receive the payment! Can you
please explain to me why this is the case when it was clearly NOT a credit card funded payment being made?
Can you also clarify the ways in which payments can/should be funded when receiving payments using a personal account?
I look forward to your reply.
Thanks,
[Edited on 17/3/05 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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ned
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| posted on 18/3/05 at 09:33 AM |
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response received:
-------------------------------
Dear Andrew xxxxxx,
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. I am happy
to assist you further.
Andrew, debit cards are treated as credit card within the PayPal system so
you would be required to upgrade to receive them. Only PayPal balances,
bank accounts and echecks can be accepted by Personal account.
PayPal (Europe) Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial
Services Authority in the United Kingdom as an electronic money
institution.
We are committed to making your PayPal experiences pleasant and fulfilling.
Sincerely,
Roxanne
PayPal, an eBay Company
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beware, I've got yellow skin
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