MikeR
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 03:40 PM |
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If you know how to wage psychological warfare you can control a kid without smacking. The problem is not many people know how to do it, or, are
prepared to learn.
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andkilde
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 06:19 PM |
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Hmmn, I was expecting a treatise on which anoraks and footware are best...
As for kids being better/worse than we were? Difficult to say -- there is a huge social disconnect between kids and us oldsters, just as there was
when we were young, and our grandparents bashed our parents for listening to the Beatles.
I do tend to see today's kids as being more outwardly destructive -- we got into a lot of scrapes and scuffles amongst ourselves growing up,
kids now seem to be more into vandalism, tagging and property damage and when they do go at each other they're more likely to use weapons than
we were -- but this may simply be me looking at it as an old git.
Cheers, Ted
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steve_gus
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 07:17 PM |
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OK then, a couple of illustrations.
There is a thread on here about a girl stabbing another girl last week almost killing her.
A couple miles away, right next to where jollygreengiant lives, is a place alled irthlingborough.
On Friday night, a 14 year old boy and a 16 year old boy got into a fight over a girl. The 14 year old stabbed to death the 16 year old.
The only incident I remember during my whole time at school of any seriousness was when the school hard nut stabbed a kid in the hand with a
screwdriver. (I left in 1975).
I dont recall anyone having knives, weapons, drugs, glue or any such things. Perhaps things changed a lot in the 16 years between us.
I dont think there is ANY excuse for carrying a knife. I thing a mandatory 6 months in prison or a young offenders institutio would sort that out. How
impressive would it be to carry a knife to school if any of your 'mates' talking about it could get you banged up.
I thought Andrew and Dads thread was enlightening, in the way that Andrew seemed to see it as normal and the way things were.
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by Monkey Man
quote:
Originally posted by steve_gus
doesnt everyone over the age of approx 25 or so see things in society as generally getting worse?
I will be thirty in december and I disagree strongly.
Getting worse in what way?
I started thinking when I was 16 at school that the people in the years below didn't show the proper respect for us fifth years.
It was terrible. No respect at all.
Since growing up I realise that that was wrong. We were just as bad at the same age we just didn't care about anything but getting out of school
at 3:15.
We think it's worse but it's not. As we grow older we hold different values and think different things are important.
As a kid I didn't care about anything. As an adult I hold a very different view.
People change but don't notice. Did you ever spot yourself getting taller? No?
Well the way to measure your personality growth is whether you agree with a sixteen year old.
The thing to do when you find you disagree strongly with a 16 yr old is not to shout or threaten violence but to remember your superior experience and
remember that you are the adult and that it is your duty to set the example to the younger people.
The feeling that things are getting worse is just fear. Fear that has no rational justification.
As that American chap said,
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself."
Sorry for the lecture. I know I tend to go on but I would be annoyed with myself if I didn't say what I think.
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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MikeR
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 08:09 PM |
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When i was in the 5th year 16 years ago (yeah, i'm 31) i remember one incident where one lad brought a stanley knife into school.
Tension between our high school and the next high school had been brewing for a couple of weeks. I seem to remember him saying something like,
"if they start anything" blah blah blah.....
most of us just kept away - but it was starting back then. In the end nothing happened and i'm not sure anyone had the guts to do anything
really.
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dave1888
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 08:21 PM |
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In my mind things are getting worse, when I was at school between 1979 and 1984 never heard of anyone carrying Weapons if two people had a problem
with each other it was sorted out with fists (rightly or wrongly). I overheard a conversation between 2 young guys resently 1 saying he carries a
small knife for protection when he goes out at night (very sad). My Dad brought me up tough there was no grounding just a boot up the arse or if it
merited it a good slap in the face it worked for me. Respect everyone until they give you reason not to, young and old.
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JoelP
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 08:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve_gus
OK then, a couple of illustrations.
and how about a 14 year old raping 3 8 year olds? or a 12 year old trying to hang a 5 year old? and the happy slapping trend (videoing random assaults
on strangers), maybe it is media that hypes it up but you would never have had that sort of thing even in the 90s.
so if thats a touch off topic. 
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MikeR
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 08:28 PM |
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had a shock a couple of years ago, went out with some mates and got searched before we went into a club to make sure we didn't have knifes.
What scared me more was i had my keyring leatherman on me at the time, they didn't notice it and i got into the club. Its got a 2" blade
on it........
Took it off my keyring after that night.
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steve_gus
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 09:04 PM |
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more symptoms of a crap society?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4697461.stm
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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Avoneer
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 10:03 PM |
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As I work in Court and deal with this sh*t every day, I can say that in the last 6 years since I have worked there, things, especially youths (anyone
under 18) are definately more common place now and with much more serious crimes.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Noodle
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| posted on 20/7/05 at 09:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve_gus
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4697461.stm
That's a very good story. No-one allowed to fail? What happens when these people hit the workplace - the real world?
They'll feel as thought the full force of a North Sea cod (wet and cold) has slapped them straight in the face.
Neil.
Your sort make me sick
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 20/7/05 at 09:51 AM |
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Most mornings I talk with a senior doctor who teaches at a London university. Every year he has to deal with school-leavers who are finding it
impossible to cope with the level of work required of a medical student. They start the year with a collection of A+ results and think that they know
what hard work is, based on their A-level studies - then they REALLY find out what it means. It would have been better if the exams were as hard as
they used to be, so that only the most competent students went forward.
And before you complain that this is a harsh view, how would you like to be operated on by someone who's only got through the exams because the
authorities had lowered the pass rate?
David
(who now ducks below the parapet).
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/7/05 at 10:49 AM |
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I will second that, I always remember teachers mentioning that "A-levels are the hardest thing you will do"...............well
that's total ball-cocks that is!!!
My degree was MUCH harder, the workload in the final year meaning working to 2:00 am through the night most nights.
Working on farms during holidays from when I was 13 gave me a fairly hardworking attitude, certainly most summers working 7am through to midnight was
not at all uncommon, and I still have the payslips from the last estate farm that I worked at (Cottesbrooke Estate in Northants) where I had 3 weeks
running with over 100hrs per week
Loved almost every minute of it though, certainly beats what I am doing now
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ned
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| posted on 20/7/05 at 11:30 AM |
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well i completely stuffed up my a-levels purely because i didn't do any work! i've since done and hnc and an hnd, the hnc by day release
and the hnd i've just finished which was 2 evenings and a saturday morning in london after work (apart from saturday mornings which i had to
commute in for, when i dbothered) this involved far more self study, motivationa dn organisation which aren't my strongest points, but i did
it.
my concerns about growing up is the social withdrawl ie when i was a kid i wasn't alowed my own tv in my room until i bought my own (28"
widescreen) which wasn't until i had a car to go and get it with! i had to buy my own computer and only had a hand-me-down games console quite
late on in my teens.
kids have all these technologically advanced gadgets, teh internet dvd etc etc which is great, but if it stops them getting out, getting exercise,
life experience, fires and tree houses in the woods and contributes to the over weight, sociallly dettached society where respect means carrying a
knife, what is wrong with a scrap and a bloody nose, thats as bad as it ever got at my school and that was within the last 10 years.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Noodle
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| posted on 20/7/05 at 12:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ned
my concerns about growing up is the social withdrawl ie when i was a kid i wasn't alowed my own tv in my room until i bought my own (28"
widescreen) which wasn't until i had a car to go and get it with! i had to buy my own computer and only had a hand-me-down games console quite
late on in my teens.
kids have all these technologically advanced gadgets, teh internet dvd etc etc which is great, but if it stops them getting out, getting exercise,
life experience, fires and tree houses in the woods and contributes to the over weight, socially detached society where respect means carrying a
knife, what is wrong with a scrap and a bloody nose, thats as bad as it ever got at my school and that was within the last 10 years.
Ned.
Ned, it sounds as though you had experiences similar to mine - learning patience.
I think it was Mrs. T. who de-regulated credit in the early 80's. The knock-on effect has been a change in consumer attitudes towards products
and their attitudes towards services.
Instant gratification. It fit hand-in-glove with credit. When at Uni I had a part-time job to fund it and I came out debt-free. It's alarming to
see students caught up in the consumer race - how can they afford it? Instant credit and with the shift in social attitudes from earning money to buy
things to buying things and playing catch-up that's set to continue.
Even (and more oftern than not usually) the poorest students at the school where I taught (which was in itself in a deprived area) had the latest
trainers/consoles/phones/biggest TV's etc. There was no sense of doing without or working towards a goal. Instant credit has changed
perceptions, targets and attitudes immeasurably.
Is that for the better? My gut feeling says no, but I'm more than happy to stand corrected from a rational proposal.
Cheers,
Neil.
p.s. In the 80's I remember hearing tales about commision-driven salemen who were encouraged to buy 911's. Their basic salary's were
changed to commision only and they had to sell like mad to keep their financial heads above water.
That analogy works well for general 21st Century consumers from a government's point of view - encourage us to borrow against tomorrow and we
have to stretch ourselves (and therefore keep the economy rolling) to maintain our standard of living.
The goverment gets economic growth and we get coronaries.
Your sort make me sick
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marktigere1
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| posted on 20/7/05 at 01:30 PM |
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Interesting thread.
I am an ex-teacher who left teaching, not through indiscipline, but through the sh1t handed down from on high.
I never had a problem with the youff of today. Yes you had a few nutters and yes they never seemed to be delt with properly in the system, but on the
whole the majority were just as scarred and unsure of their future as you and I. They were also capable of opening an old gits eyes (mine) to a
totally different world. They were funny, sad and sometimes pathetic but on the whole a good laugh. They loved to take the p@ss out of my cars and I
let them because I can take it and find it funny (unlike others) which ultimately led to a degree of respect and common ground. Have met many after
they left school and they took delight in showing me their first cars. (A couple had better ones than me!!!!)
Whats wrong with this bl@@dy country is the minority rule the roost and until the minority that shagg everything up for everyone else are totally
ignored or shipped to an island in the mid atlantic, nothing will change. (Chav's and other sh1t stirrers)
The complete overload of information we have to endure everyday is also a contributing factor. The number of teenage suicides are on the increase,
particularly among boys who find they cannot live upto the celebrity lifestyle expected in every magazine and in every advert, but at school they
don't talk about it because its not cool.
I once talked a scissor weilding boy down simply by asking him if he had tried a particular computer game and offered to lend him a copy. It was the
first time in his 14 years anyone took an interest in what he did Had a good working relationship with him after that, but teachers are not
around once the pupil has left the premises.
These factors are not usually talked about in public.
Not sure where I'm going with this but thought I would contribute.
Cheers
Mark
If a bolt is stuck force it.
If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway!!!
(My Dad 1991)
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