craig1410
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| posted on 17/9/05 at 11:26 PM |
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Anyone know intruder alarm systems?
Hi,
I've just moved into a new house and it doesn't have an alarm system at present. I've fitted extra window locks, deadbolts and the
main doors are good solid steel skinned doors but I can't get used to going out in the morning and not setting an alarm...
So, my question is:
Are wireless alarm systems as secure these days as a wired system (or vice versa) and do any of you have any recommendations for either a wired or
wireless system.
I need something which will cover a 5 bedroom house with front door, side door, two french doors at the back and a shed and garage. Ideally I want it
to send me a text message or voicemessage to my mobile if activated and I want to be able to listen to my house via a microphone from my mobile to
confirm if an activation is genuine or not. I would also like to be able to link it to my smoke alarms and it should have a panic button facility.
I used to have a Micromark 8 zone wireless/wired hybrid at my last house but it was fairly basic. I have been looking at the Friedland
"Response" alarm systems which B&Q and Screwfix sell and the SA5 looks quite good on paper.
By the way, I'm an graduate Electronic Engineer (and electronics hobyist more importantly...) and work as an IT consultant at present so
don't spare the techy-talk. I intend to fit the alarm myself and obviously the wireless system is attractive from in this respect as it will
save me fishing wires up the wall cavities etc but I'm not sure how easy they are to jam or circumvent. For example, I was concerned that the
"house code" for the above alarm only seemed to have 8 dip switches which means someone could sit outside in his/her car and try each one
of the 256 combinations using a remote key fob until my alarm deactivated itself. Have I got this wrong because this seems pretty lame?
Anyway, any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers,
Craig.
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stevebubs
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| posted on 17/9/05 at 11:39 PM |
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Rottweiler.
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/9/05 at 11:41 PM |
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Does my Wife count?
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stevebubs
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| posted on 17/9/05 at 11:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
For example, I was concerned that the "house code" for the above alarm only seemed to have 8 dip switches which means someone could sit
outside in his/her car and try each one of the 256 combinations using a remote key fob until my alarm deactivated itself. Have I got this wrong
because this seems pretty lame?
Anyway, any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers,
Craig.
More seriously, I would assume that the keypad and main CPU would need to be "paired" into a trusted relationship. But then that's
assuming the designers of these alarms aren't total morons.
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stevebubs
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| posted on 17/9/05 at 11:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Does my Wife count?
Does she bite?
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stevebubs
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| posted on 17/9/05 at 11:52 PM |
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Seem to be quite a few here
http://www.quicksafe.co.uk/
The manuals are online, too
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/9/05 at 11:52 PM |
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She has been known to bite but I try to discourage it... 
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 18/9/05 at 09:32 AM |
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Jeez thats some system you want to install.
I fitted mines myself. Hard wired 8 zone and tamper circuit Challenger 5 main panel. It has a facility for remote key pads and an add on dialler
which I dont use, entry/exit zone, panic buttons fire alarm zone (you need the type of smoke detectors that link together). As for a listening device
I don't know about that.
I use 4 zones for my 3 bed semi and it took me 2 weekends to wire up with no probs so far in 3 years, except wrongly placing one movement detector
which goes of on really sunny days ( I just isolate this zone during summer as there is no access to it without going past other sensors.
As for the wireless ones I'm not so sure how good they are especially in this day of mobile phones wireless door bells wireless routers etc etc
etc so I won't advise on them except to say for me it'll always be hard wired cause it's easier to find faults if you can meter
everything out.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 18/9/05 at 09:36 AM |
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I fitted a Yale system about 3 years back - the arm/disarm is via a key fob with seperate remote panel, this system is very easy to extend both
wirelessly and wired and is of very high quality.
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ernie
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| posted on 18/9/05 at 11:31 AM |
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Top quality equipment:-- Scantronic/ Menvier, Visionic, ADE.
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craig1410
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| posted on 18/9/05 at 08:33 PM |
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Thanks for the replies guys.
I know my requirements seem quite extensive but it is largely based on the "Response SA5" system which you can buy from B&Q and this
one has the ability to "listen" to the house if the alarm is triggered amongst lots of other features.
Here is the PDF datasheet if you are interested. This unit costs
something like £260 and can support a combination of wired and wireless zones and devices. The siren box is solar charged and has batteries for
driving the sounder so it is completely wireless. You can use a remote keypad too which means you can hide the main control panel away out of sight.
Seems to be a good system IF the fact it is wireless isn't going to be a problem. The fact that it qualifies for remote monitoring by Group 4
would suggest that false alarms are infrequent and you don't need to get it professionally installed to qualify for monitoring either.
I'll check out the Yale system and see how it compares.
Thanks again everyone,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 2/10/05 at 08:50 PM |
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Hi,
Just a quick update on my alarm system saga...
First thing: Don't buy the B&Q system as it has a flaw in common with many other wireless systems which renders it very easy to defeat in
5-15 minutes. It would be irresponsible of me to say how to defeat it on a public forum but I even phoned the manufacturer and they confirmed that it
could indeed be easily defeated. Great security system eh? I took the whole lot back to B&Q and demanded a refund - no probs there I'm happy
to say.
I have now purchased a bunch of alarm bits from a company called Alarm Supplies based in Port Dundas in Glasgow. They were really helpful and despite
the fact they normally only deal with the trade, they were happy to help me. In fact I even got trade prices!! I spoke to a regular customer while I
was there and he laughed out loud when I said I had taken back a B&Q "Response" system and said that he often gets people phoning him
up to ask him to come round and help them with their "Response" system as they are apparently very unreliable.
So, I got a Texecom R8+ control panel with remote keypad, a Texecom external sounder with strobes (which looks very like some ADT boxes except for the
stickers...), 4 PIR's (one pet immune), 5 mag switches, 1 heavy duty mag switch (garage door), a backup battery, 100m of 8 core cable and an
internal speaker/siren for just £170 inc vat.
So far I have got most of it installed and I have to say it is top quality kit. The Visonix PIR sensors are very sexy - lovely curves! The control
panel only cost £48.50+vat including a remote keypad but it has more features than you can shake a stick at and can even connect to a PC for
programming and monitoring. I'm going to get one more keypad for it which I'll mount upstairs so that I can check which zone has been
triggered if it goes off in the night, without having to go downstairs. The keypads come in two types, LED and LCD and although the LED display is
fine, I want an LCD one to make programming and monitoring and a bit easier.
So, if you want a secure alarm system then either go with a good wired system or get a proper professional wireless system from the likes of
Scantronic or Ademco/Honeywell or similar. If you get it from a trade supplier like I did then it will be cheaper, last longer and be a darn sight
more secure.
Hope that helps someone else out there. Give me a shout if you need more details of anything.
Cheers,
Craig.
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steve_gus
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| posted on 2/10/05 at 09:00 PM |
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one thing to bear in mind is I think that home installed alarms dont count towards a discount in home insurance premiums - they have to be a pro
installation
atb
steve
[Edited on 2/10/05 by steve_gus]
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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wilkingj
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| posted on 2/10/05 at 09:05 PM |
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I have two comments:
1. Speaking as a Radio Ham, ANY wireless based system is certainly NOT a Reliable / Professional / Useful system.
I would avoid like the plague. This is based, on the fact that ANYTHING that uses Radio waves is open to:
a. Interception
b. Eavesdropping
c. Being interferred with by other Signals either intentional or otherwise. ie Electronic Counter Measures. As for "not saying it on
here", Its a bit pointless, as most burglars know how to defeat all the cheapo alarms anyway. Lets face it there is engough 2.4ghz Transmitters
/ Video Senders / Cameras / WiFi Lans about to have an enormous amount of fun with.
2.
Unfortunately my Old Intruder Deterrent System is no longer "Socially Acceptable to Society at Large" It used products from a company
started by a couple of chaps called Mr Smith and Mr Wesson
I had a Nice Sign saying:
"These Premises are Protected by Smith & Wesson"
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/10/05 at 01:03 AM |
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Steve,
Yes you are correct but to be honest I don't care as the reduction in premiums that I have seen are pretty small. Also, as you may be aware, the
rules on alarm systems changed at the start of this month and from what I have read and heard from alarm installers, life has become a lot more
complicated and not necessarily to anyone's advantage...
Geoff,
I agree to some extent about your concerns about wireless alarm technology but there are systems out there which work very well and are just as
difficult to defeat as a wired system. In general try to avoid anything running on 433MHz as this band is very cluttered and poorly regulated. The
better systems will be running on 868MHz "Narrowband". The term "Narrowband" is important for reasons I won't go into
here.
On your comments about me not publicising the specific weakness of the B&Q system, I agree that most serious burglars will be all too familar but
I simply don't feel comfortable "publicly" spilling the beans on the off chance that someone listening in takes advantage of the
information. However, if anyone out there does have a B&Q wireless system or any other system with an 8-bit house code then email me if you are
concerned and I may be able to help.
Note: I am not trying to be "clever" by concealing what I know, I'm only trying to be discrete!
Cheers,
Craig.
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wilkingj
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| posted on 3/10/05 at 09:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Steve,
Note: I am not trying to be "clever" by concealing what I know, I'm only trying to be discrete!
Cheers,
Craig.
I do appreciate you being discrete.. Its quite correct.. I was just putting over my 2d worth.
As for 433mhz... Pleanty of Radio hams out there and 430 - 440 is quite an active band. I also mean,.. What Pratt... put an unlicenced Public domain
transmitter allocation amongst all those Amateurs.
Its also used for Car Key Fobs... I just cant understand people who buy cars fitted with such systems... as I am prone to very long spells of waffling
or Long CQ calls whilst sitting in the carpark on a Saturday... whilst the wife does the Shopping. OOpps!!!
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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dave1888
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| posted on 3/10/05 at 09:43 PM |
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Craig try this company, I use them alot for door entry intruder alarm kit
http://www.gardinersecurity.co.uk/index.asp
they have a place in glasgow only thing is you need to be a trader, dont know if that is a problem for you.
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