Liam
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 posted on 22/11/09 at 07:06 PM |
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Tin-top woes - pug 106. Any ideas?
Well, it's like this - month or two ago a friend's 1.1 106 was on the M1 and the engine just died and cut out. Had to be towed. Normally
it would have come straight to me and I'd have tried to fix it, but as I was too busy finishing my house renovation and getting married I
couldn't look at it. Went to a garage who couldn't find a fault, blamed the ECU which then was tested and checked out OK, then he gave
up.
Friend has since replaced it to get mobile and the pug is at mine as I've a bit of time now to look at it. Hopefully I can fix it or at least
get better than the scrap value she's been offered as it owes her a fair bit of cash - she's just had cam belt done, exhaust etc and
it's only 60,000 miles. I've got a slight advantage over the original mechanic in that I have an identical working 106 (mum's  )
to borrow bits off. I'll be buggered if I can figure out what's wrong with the thing though!
It's a T-reg 1.1 (TU engine I think) with bosch singlepoint injection and fully electronic fuel/spark. Symptoms are: has both fuel and spark
and it fires whilst cranking. Just wont run. Sometimes almost catches but will always die in a few seconds. Original mechanic said timing is out,
but dunno why, which seems to basically be the case.
Borrowing bits from mum, I've so far replaced the whole singlepoint injection module (including TPS and idle control bits) and the crank sensor
but made no difference. Tried ecu but immobiliser issues stop it firing at all. Couldn't change the coil pack as couldn't get
mum's off (chocolate bolts) but dont think it's that as sparks seem to be fine - just at the wrong time.
Haven't looked at cambelt timing yet but assume the original mechanic has checked this - he's made fresh white marks and I assume has had
a timing light on it to come to his conclusion. I do intend to verify the belt hasn't slipped a tooth though.
Running out of ideas now - any gurus in the house? My ECU knowledge is a little rusty lately - is it right that they would use some value of timing
for starting then switch to a different value for normal running? If so perhaps this isn't occuring. How would the switch to
'running' mode be triggered. It only seems to have crank sensor and as said I've swapped this (though haven't turned the
engine over and examined the teeth on the flywheel to see if any are missing. The ones I could see looked fine - i.e. not filled in with gunk or
owt).
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Any ideas would be appreciated. Maybe it really is the ECU and it somehow passed the test that was done on it?
The irony is, though, mum's working 106 is going away to be scrapped this week under that government scrappage scheme! So i'm running out
of time to borrow bits off it. Wonder if I could get away with a sneaky engine swap and tell the scrappers mum's must have broken down, what a
concidence etc etc? Can't see how though as I think she has to drive it to wherever to replace it with her new car. Don't think
I've got time to swap the engine either, and if it really is the ECU I guess that won't help anyway!
Cheers for any help,
Liam
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UncleFista
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 07:28 PM |
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Crank position sensor ?
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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Liam
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 07:31 PM |
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Somewhere in that long waffley post I said I've already swapped the crank sensor off mum's car
Thanks anyway.
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UncleFista
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 07:38 PM |
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I did read the post, I just promptly forgot most of the content once I had 
It sounds like ignition to me, but I'd try start it with easy start first to make sure..
(I do like to start with the cheap/free stuff first  )
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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britishtrident
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 07:39 PM |
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Some cars have an oil pressure switch wired to the ecu or sometimes just a relay, they will crank and start but if the oil pressure hasn't come
up when the key is released the fuel pump or injection gets cut off.
If that dosen't tuern up anything you need to find out if it is losing spark or fuel when it cuts out - you need to tap into the injector
and coil looms so you can wire in an led
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 08:03 PM |
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I would do a fuel pressure test on it, sounds like the pump is only running when cranking. Could be a faulty relay? Might be worth bridging the relay
contacts to put a live feed to the pump to eliminate / confirm?
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birdii
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 08:11 PM |
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I would also suggest relay on ignition circuit (once had this on a 205GTi) or how about checking the ignition switch carefully to make sure ignition
is on in run position and not just start?
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jase380
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 08:21 PM |
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i`m with the above, had a similar problem on my xr4 years ago, would fire up but died straight away, turned out to be knackered fuel pump relay.
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turboben
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 08:34 PM |
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First thing I'd do is squirt so easystart down the intake!
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Dusty
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| posted on 23/11/09 at 12:03 AM |
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Ignition switch electric contacts and CPS are common faults on saxo/106. Ignition switch also has a little coil thingy on it to allow ecu to recognise
the key. These can go wrong.
[Edited on 23/11/09 by Dusty]
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Liam
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| posted on 23/11/09 at 07:19 PM |
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Hmmmm some good stuff to be going on with - cheers! Sounds like a plan to make sure I'm still getting fuel and saprk when I release the key, or
running isn't being disabled by some dodgy oil pressure relay/switch. Could try good old easy start but I think it still wont run - seems to
have plenty of fuel - if you open the throttle when cranking it makes loudish popping noises and you can see fuel being sprayed about by the air
pulses. Does this support the original mechanic's finding that the timing is wrong (for some unknown reason)?
Couple of thoughts: Lot's of suggestions for fuel pump relay or ignition switch. I'd intuitively thought it couldn't be something
like the fuel pump relay knackered or i'd never get fuel/firing. As it is, it's always firing but just...wont...run! Similarly if
it was some immobiliser/ignition switch issue, wouldn't it also just crank away and never fire?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Can't do owt on it tonight unfortunately, in fact it's lookng like the weekend until I can get stuck back into it.
Will keep you updated - cheers!
Liam
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