Noodle
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 10:12 AM |
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Help with my rambling theory
Like me, perhaps some of you like to pigeon hole people. That is, divide people up into certain categories. Sometimes those categories come naturally,
sometimes they're a previously unidentified yet commonly felt type. When given a suitably snappy title one can immediately map that title to
this category. A prime example is 'Chavs'. If someone doesn't know what a chav is, when you start to describe the characteristics
assocoiated with them, the penny soon drops and the listener will soon start to nod knowingly. That type of person has already been internally
categorised and your help has merely provided a common noun for it.
We can all think of various pigeon holed types; from a tweed wearing Bentley driving toff with a stately home and a shotgun crocked over his arm to a
piss-soaked tramp drinking White Lightening cider from a brown paper bag in the park.
The recent thread about knife-weilding teenagers and the general "Going to hell in a hand-cart" (I love that expression) threads that have
occurred have made me think. As many of the correspondants were broadly in agreement about the state of social affairs, does this mean that we are a
social type. And why?
Brought together by this forum on a common quest for car-building (cheaper the better) information, this gives rise to a chicken/egg situation. Are
the more reactionary morally 'traditional' elements of society (myself included) drawn to practical persuits inline with self-betterment?
Do we admire the techniques/industries of the past and in doing so absorb an inference of it's morality and traditional values, OR does an
interest in engineering, self-learning, practical skills derive this stance on it's own?
Does that make any sense?
Cheers,
Neil.
p.s. I realise that this is a generalisation, but that's the point about catgorisation.
Your sort make me sick
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 10:21 AM |
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it does make sense, and I don't know the answer! I have a fairly diverse range of friends from a smattering of entirely different backgrounds,
but some sense of engineering or mechanical nous seems to feature in all of them, either by occupation or hobby. Having said that, character-wise they
are totally and utterly unalike and range from very eccentric and totally off-the-wall, to pretty dull and boring! (I am probably nearer the latter
end of that scale in most respects! )
[Edited on 18/7/05 by NS Dev]
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Jumpy Guy
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 10:46 AM |
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this is something that Ive thought about too.
Ive been posting for a while now, and enjoy the board- useful, generally entertaining etc etc.
but, the people on it, most of whom i like, are far more "traditional" and "conservative" in their outlook than my own social
scene..
is that because they are generally male, white, anglo saxon, with dull engineering viewpoints?
hmmmm.....
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gazza285
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 10:47 AM |
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Terrible thing this car building, I have to use knives and hammers, all sorts of weapons in fact, gas axes, grinders etc.
Ten minutes with the gas axe soon relieves me of my pent up aggression.
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MikeR
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 11:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
it does make sense, and I don't know the answer! I have a fairly diverse range of friends from a smattering of entirely different backgrounds,
but some sense of engineering or mechanical nous seems to feature in all of them, either by occupation or hobby. Having said that, character-wise they
are totally and utterly unalike and range from very eccentric and totally off-the-wall, to pretty dull and boring! (I am probably nearer the latter
end of that scale in most respects!)
[Edited on 18/7/05 by NS Dev]
Hmm, i must have boring mates cause you're not at the dull / boring end of my scale. Just got to hope that i'm not on the eccentric end of
your scale!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 11:23 AM |
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The eccentric end of the scale is the best place to be in my book Mike!!
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MikeR
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 12:15 PM |
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I'll read into that answer where i'm at then. 12 year old lad wants to come to my bbq now he knows what i'm doing with the leaf
shredder ...... his mum wasn't keen for some reason!
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 12:31 PM |
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My friends come from a wide variety of different back grounds and all have different for lack of a better term skills. Some are into computers, others
music, some film. But when I think about myself and all my firends do share one common denominator, we are all open, friendly, sensitive people.
As for myself of this forum I'm not sure that I fall easily into the engineering pigeon hole.... for me it is just a love of creating things
(well that and the pretty ladies) rather than what seems to be most of society today who's only love is destruction. Personally I blame
lego..... the sweedish made me abnormal!
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 01:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jumpy Guy
this is something that Ive thought about too.
Ive been posting for a while now, and enjoy the board- useful, generally entertaining etc etc.
but, the people on it, most of whom i like, are far more "traditional" and "conservative" in their outlook than my own social
scene..
is that because they are generally male, white, anglo saxon, with dull engineering viewpoints?
hmmmm.....
what's your social scene then, out of (genuine!) interest?
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ned
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 01:28 PM |
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i think i get referred to as a 'petrol head' by like minded people, diy/mechanic type by those at work who know a little about what i do
at home but verging down to lowly 'car nerd/geek' or the like with those who are ignorant of my hobbies.
Ned.
ps did i miss the point?
[Edited on 18/7/05 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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James
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 01:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Noodle
Brought together by this forum on a common quest for car-building (cheaper the better) information, this gives rise to a chicken/egg situation. Are
the more reactionary morally 'traditional' elements of society (myself included) drawn to practical persuits inline with self-betterment?
Do we admire the techniques/industries of the past and in doing so absorb an inference of it's morality and traditional values,
OR does an interest in engineering, self-learning, practical skills derive this stance on it's own?
I suspect the latter.
I remember putting a few polls put up about this at one time awhile ago to try and confirm my generalisations about *most* people here. In the most
part it proved that we're a far more diverse bunch that I'd have first thought.
The age thing was the most suprising- my expectation that most builders would be late middle-aged turned out to be wrong when the poll showed that
there were as many in early twenties as there were mid-fifties!
The infamous 'sexuality' thread showed a lot of people to be far more liberal than I expected- along with a few surprising exceptions!
There are some pretty conservative (note the small 'c' ) views about imigration etc. too.
I'm not sure if anyone's done a salary poll yet, we've done politics and no-one's been brave (or foolish! ) enough to do a
religion one yet either.
Interesting thread though...
Cheers,
James
[Edited on 18/7/05 by James]
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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MikeR
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 04:29 PM |
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despite trying to wind Nat up most people do think i'm eccentric.
5 years building a car helps reinforce the view, along with the leaf blower bbq and the fact i like trying different things and enjoying life. (As
long as i don't get in other peoples way too much)
I think the thing with this forum is we're a very diverse bunch with a couple of similar traits. We've all got the ambition to be creative
and are doing something about it. As someone else says, it does set us apart from a heck of a lot of people.
Creed, religion, money aren't something that join us and hence will be different.
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marcyboy
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 04:48 PM |
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think about ten topics that are quite current and i doubt any people would agree
with all ten of them and if they by chance they do...they won't agree on the solution
some could be classed more liberal than others and maybe some a bit to extreme,
and theres a big void in the middle with plenty of people dotted all over the place,
its like the so called "class system" theres now classes within classes within classes,
and in each of those there's a lot if boring thru to outrageous to oddball characters
really who cares as long as your good people i can mix with most types of people the only ones i can't stand is those who look down their
nose at you regardless who you are or what you do we are all the same
variety can make us all interesting even the nutjobs
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steve_gus
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 08:08 PM |
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doesnt everyone over the age of approx 25 or so see things in society as generally getting worse? Those under that age have too little life experience
to stand back and make an assessment.
atb
steve
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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Avoneer
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 08:51 PM |
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Just two points I'd like to make.
Everyone I have met from this forum, all different in many ways, have been some of the kindest and most helpful people I have ever met, and I meet and
deal with a lot of people from a lot of different backgrounds on a daily basis.
Also, the egg must have come first and was merely laid by two other animals that had cross bred.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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marcyboy
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 09:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve_gus
doesnt everyone over the age of approx 25 or so see things in society as generally getting worse? Those under that age have too little life experience
to stand back and make an assessment.
atb
steve
things are getting worse ..much worse,
but ultimately it's the parents to blame agree or disagree.
surely respect starts at home and follows on from there
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MikeR
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 09:12 PM |
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now here's a topic ..........
Parents need a collective large kick up the arse from around 1970's onwards!!!!!!!
People have this strange idea that teachers teach english should also be able to teach RESPECT & DISCIPLINE.
NO NO NO NO NO NO - kids learn respect at home. So very few people know how to bring up and discipline children these days. You don't need to
smack children, just need to understand psychology.
(My mum was a primary teacher and eventually a head. I got to watch first hand the standard of children's behaviour dropping as the years went
by)
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indykid
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 11:20 PM |
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you don't need to be over 25 to see that things are getting worse.
i'm 19, and it seems clear to me!
i don't think it's so much that bad discipline is a new thing, just a damn sight more prolific.
just think what the next generation will be like! 
tom
[Edited on 18/7/05 by indykid]
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Monkey Man
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| posted on 18/7/05 at 11:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve_gus
doesnt everyone over the age of approx 25 or so see things in society as generally getting worse?
I will be thirty in december and I disagree strongly.
Getting worse in what way?
I started thinking when I was 16 at school that the people in the years below didn't show the proper respect for us fifth years.
It was terrible. No respect at all.
Since growing up I realise that that was wrong. We were just as bad at the same age we just didn't care about anything but getting out of school
at 3:15.
We think it's worse but it's not. As we grow older we hold different values and think different things are important.
As a kid I didn't care about anything. As an adult I hold a very different view.
People change but don't notice. Did you ever spot yourself getting taller? No?
Well the way to measure your personality growth is whether you agree with a sixteen year old.
The thing to do when you find you disagree strongly with a 16 yr old is not to shout or threaten violence but to remember your superior experience and
remember that you are the adult and that it is your duty to set the example to the younger people.
The feeling that things are getting worse is just fear. Fear that has no rational justification.
As that American chap said,
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself."
Sorry for the lecture. I know I tend to go on but I would be annoyed with myself if I didn't say what I think.
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MikeR
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 08:08 AM |
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Interesting view - hadnt considered some of those points before.
One comment that sticks in my mind about high school when i was in the 5th year (and we only got to leave at 3:45!!!) was how the teachers compared
years. I over heard one conversation about how the second year where the worst year they could remember, in fact they where worse than the 5th
year!
Also, you can't deny society is changing. Children grow up much more quickly due to the pressures put upon them by (i believe) advertising.
ps did notice myself getting taller, i stopped having my chin on my g/f shoulder when walking behind her and started having to bend down to kiss her!
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marcyboy
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 02:27 PM |
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not pressure put on there shoulders they are being forced to grow up too young,
wether it be by being allowed to or having to,but if you let your dog bite you and do it's business everywhere it will,
if you let your wife spend all your earnings she will...(unless your married to mrs bob).
and if you let your kids go off the rails they will too, if your kids respect you they should respect everyone if brought up correctly.... just a
ramble
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 02:39 PM |
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IMHO, kids generally have a crappy life these days - when they're young they can't roam around like I used to (for instance, I often used
to wander off to the local beach by myself when I was 10 or 11, hoping that my friends would be there). Very often me and a couple of mates used to
go off into the wilds for the day - can't see that happening very often these days.
And when they get to be teenagers the pressure is huge, there doesn't seem to be much plain innocent fun to be had, and the long-term prospects
are grim.
I'm glad my two kids are well past that stage...
David
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DarrenW
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 02:51 PM |
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Kids lives arent all that bad these days. They have DVD's, hundreds of TV channels, play stations etc. Sounds great. When i was a kid we only
had 3 channels. Ch.4 came in when i was about 11 or so - that was a good excuse to get out more! e had a quarry nearby - it was great to see the big
dump trucks at such close quarters. There was an old slag heap at the other side of the railway line that was also great, it had a woods in the middle
for exploring and loads of ponds for catching frogs and newts etc. By the way - it wasnt me that used to blow the frogs up and stick them to the
hawthorn bushes.
Does the law need tightening up these days or have people become more cleverer at being evasive???
I dont know the answers to moral issues but i have a good sense of right and wrong and pride myself in keeping a good but fair level of discipline. I
would sh1t myself if a copper came knocking on my door - even if i knew id done noewt wrong. It amazes me how many people who make a sport out of
finding ways around the law of the land.
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MikeR
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 03:00 PM |
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I sooooo agree........ When i was 11 I used to go wandering with my mates over the back fields - we'd walk for miles, walk along side (farmers
side) the motorway, cross it (via the famers bridge), stuff today children wouldn't be allowed to do......
yeah, ok, occasionally we did "naughty" things. I won't list them in case it incriminates me. But it was the sort of stuff i'd
expect to get a good telling off and a clip round the ear for ('found' a turnip with a few thousand others in a field for my mum once -
mum was mad at me when i got home).
I still worry when i see a copper, still respect the law. Once a bloke stepped out on me when i had the green light and i knocked him down. I really
thought i'd killed him, still stopped, walked (very apprehensively) to the back of the car ....... you have to face up to what you've done
in life. Too many people don't and think they should get a free ride.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 19/7/05 at 03:01 PM |
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You're back to parental discipline again...
(and I don't mean smacking - I reckon I smacked my kids about 3 or 4 times during their entire childhood - I soon found out it did no good, and
found better ways of maintaining good behaviour. Didn't always work, but they've both grown up to be good adults, so I can't have
been too far wrong.)
David
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