splitrivet
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 06:59 PM |
|
|
personally, i've been working since i was 16, i'm nearly 29 now, so 12 years paying into the system there to protect me, why
shouldn't i take so of my money back out of it?
[Edited on 21/9/11 by blakep82]
Dont think thats how its supposed to work Blake its not some sort of piggy bank, otherwise I'd take the last 43 years into account and do sod
all till retirement. Oops, forgot I'm sell employed so despite all that Ive paid in I'll get sod all anyroad.
Cheers,
Bob
[Edited on 21/9/11 by splitrivet]
I used to be a Werewolf but I'm alright nowwoooooooooooooo
|
|
|
|
|
austin man
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 07:05 PM |
|
|
some really contencious points in all this, having worked in this type of arena for the past 13 years I have seen and heard so many things. I witness
daily
people who want to work but will alloways struggle (dissability academia etc)
People who want to work but arent given the opportunity
people that can work but refuse to do so
people who will be financially worse off due to the current benefits (the whole package
people who are working and claiming benefit
people who employers cant see progression in an individual so not prepared to invest
people who blame the migrant workforce yet wont do the work they do
people who have made benefits a way of life
the list goes on
Whats the answer its definitely not to carry on the way we are and changes are afoot. Building factories state run will have a knock on effect on
small business so will affect the stability further thus becoming a socialist state.
The country is in a state of disrepair ie poor roads, litter, general untidyness all councils are feeling the cutbacks this is wher we could utilise a
workforce. As a country we should not have come to a standstill due to the snow we could have all got out and been digging, it should have been
someones job.
in most countries there is no benefit system other which have one only allow a certain timeframe that you will be paid in, how about after a year of
unemplyment your benefits paid being broken down into an hourly rate of pay and you give that amount of time to your local community. ie paid £60 in
benefits divide by NMW and thats how many hours you put into your community / local council
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
|
|
|
blakep82
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 07:20 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by splitrivet
personally, i've been working since i was 16, i'm nearly 29 now, so 12 years paying into the system there to protect me, why
shouldn't i take so of my money back out of it?
[Edited on 21/9/11 by blakep82]
Dont think thats how its supposed to work Blake its not some sort of piggy bank, otherwise I'd take the last 43 years into account and do sod
all till retirement. Oops, forgot I'm sell employed so despite all that Ive paid in I'll get sod all anyroad.
Cheers,
Bob
no you're right, thats not how its SUPPOSED to work, but i've paid a lot of money into, why shouldn't i be entitled to some of it
back when the job market in this town is cack? i would love nothing more than to be working, and i'm trying so hard, but its just not happening,
i've applid for everything from cemetery grounds keeper, working in gregs, supermarkets, working in the museum, various council jobs, the new
screwfix they're opening etc. a bit of everything
i'm not saying i should be able to sit on my arse and take the money back, but at the moment i'm really struggling, and living back with
my mum and dad REALLY isn't fun! why don't i deserve the help?
I did live on the money i had in the bank as long as i could be going to sign on right enough
[Edited on 21/9/11 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
|
|
|
steve m
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 07:30 PM |
|
|
In 12 years of working you have earned how much ? to demand the state to pay for you ?
|
|
|
blakep82
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 07:49 PM |
|
|
based on the lowest paid job i've had so far, about £10k dole pays about 3k a year i think
who's demanding? i'm just taking the help i can get to see me through while i'm struggling to get any job just now.
I don't enjoy being on the dole. its destroys your self confidence, especially when theres narrow minded, self righteous people beating you down
all the time because they somehow think they're better than you
unfortunately this town's dying. it used to be one of the most industrious towns in britain i think, all the biggest and best ships built,
engineering, QE2 built just up the river, then there was IBM, used to employ nearly the whole town. all gone now, and nothing replaced it all... its
definitely not easy
[Edited on 21/9/11 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
|
|
|
steve m
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 08:10 PM |
|
|
Im not having a go m8, not one bit !!
steve
|
|
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 08:11 PM |
|
|
So, sadly, you are going to have to do what millions before have done....go where the work is.
I live in Kent where there are a large number of fruit farms in very large poly tunnels. We have endless streams of Eastern Europeans being brought
over to work on these farms because the local unemployed will not do the work. So there is work, you just have to be prepared to move around to do
it. I've worked all over and I go where the work is...
[Edited on 21/9/11 by jeffw]
|
|
|
swanny
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 08:17 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
A simpler answer would be to refuse to issue work visas to foreign nationals until there was 0% unemployment in the UK. Why are we importing labour
when we have a perfectly good (in most cases) workforce on benefits. Retrain them if necessary but don't import cheap labour from, primarily,
the Indian subcontinent until there are a surplus of jobs.
i think there are two elements to this. on the one hand we dont have 'perfectly good' potential employees for some of the lower end jobs.
in a country as nauturally insular and suspicioius of foreginers as we are why would an employer give a job to a pole or bangladeshi? (particularly
now we have a minimum wage) other than that the UK based applicants are poor in comparison.
someone i know offered a number of low end training posts and had 50 or so applicants, all UK based. scheduled interviews with all them and almost 40
of them simply failed to show.
at the other end restrictions on visas have significant impacts on exactly the sorts of high value manufacturing companies who simply cannot find
enough well qualified engineers for example to fill their roles. the same is also true of universities recruiting research staff, and even students.
some of our MSC courses in what you might think were good solid engineering courses: electrical engineering for example have no UK based students on
them at all.
|
|
|
swanny
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 08:19 PM |
|
|
i find it interesting too that within this thread about the unemployed we start to see discussionsvery quickly around what to do with prisoners in
jail.
that seems an interesting grouping together and says a lot about how public feeling is currently aimed regarding the unemployed.
paul
|
|
|
BenB
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 08:20 PM |
|
|
I think it must be very hard being unemplyed but then I've never been unemployed and I've done some pretty poo (and poorly) paid jobs in
my time to get me through university.
The issue I have is when people are offered jobs but turn them down. Surely then they're not "job seeking". Being a final year med
student didn't stop me flipping burgers for £3/hr....
|
|
|
Theshed
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 08:21 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
the biggest change needed is to firstly simplify the benefit system. It should be a simple payment for job seekers allowance, not a case of once you
are on the dole you get everything paid for (ie council tax, dental costs etc). They should budget like anyone else. Im all for cutting payments after
6 months, and also being made to work either before or after that point. It would need to be work that doesnt need close supervision and also work
that cannot be done badly. Or just introduce a flogging for shoddy work. It goes without saying that the Human Rights Act would be majorly
rewritten.
Also a more robust legal system to deal with repeat offenders/ career criminals.
I could go on all day.
Any particular section of the Human Rights Act you object to or are you just repeating what you read in the Daily Mail? The Human Rights Act simply
provides a mechanism for using the Convention on Human Rights agreed by most civilized nations after the horror of the 2nd World War. The reference to
Europe has nothing whatsoever to do with the EEC. Before the HRA it was possible to complain about a breach of the convention (and many UK citizens
did) but it was expensive and took years. The HRA simply sped things up. So much bull is talked about this simple bit of law mainly by the completely
ignorant.
|
|
|
daviep
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 08:26 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
based on the lowest paid job i've had so far, about £10k dole pays about 3k a year i think
who's demanding? i'm just taking the help i can get to see me through while i'm struggling to get any job just now.
I don't enjoy being on the dole. its destroys your self confidence, especially when theres narrow minded, self righteous people beating you down
all the time because they somehow think they're better than you
unfortunately this town's dying. it used to be one of the most industrious towns in britain i think, all the biggest and best ships built,
engineering, QE2 built just up the river, then there was IBM, used to employ nearly the whole town. all gone now, and nothing replaced it all... its
definitely not easy
[Edited on 21/9/11 by blakep82]
I'm going to join "the narrow minded, self righteous people" if there is no work where you live the answer seems simple to
me..........move to where there is work. This may mean moving down the road or to a different country. I'm not suggesting that this will be easy
or particularly pleasant to start with, it probably won't be.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
|
|
|
ravingfool
|
| posted on 21/9/11 at 10:45 PM |
|
|
well, very interesting all round.
The last few years have definitely been particularly bad for anyone wanting to work.
Granted, there is always some work somewhere and personally I have previously applied for and done some pretty terrible, lowly paid and unrespected
jobs (car park attendant anyone?). Around the same time as that I also had significant periods of unemployment whilst no one was prepared to offer me
unskilled work due to my specialised training and experience.
I and many of my friends have in the past had to leave much of our details off of a cv in order to even get an interview for a job we could do in our
sleep.
There are no simple answers to the questions posed by the OP
I continue to count myself lucky to be employed, not because I don't deserve employment - I've yet to be made redundnt from any job,
always been asked to stay on or offered a better position to stay - but simply because I have experienced the mindless depression of not even getting
an invitation to an interview.
Many of my friends have fallen in and out of work over the last few years regardless of their area of work and despite all of my friends being hard
working and determined to make the best living possible for themselves.
disclosure: I'm an evil solicitor and perhaps that's why people didn't want to hire me for honest jobs in the past?!
|
|
|
RK
|
| posted on 22/9/11 at 12:26 AM |
|
|
You can't give up, that's all I know. It is very very demoralising to be unemployed (I have been there for about 2 years during the
80's) and misunderstood by almost everyone. It WILL get better. Education is the key. I will harp on that until I can't talk anymore. Crap
jobs feel like absolute insults when you've got the education, but at least you can see a bit of light. I was washing dishes right after my
first university degree. I can tell you it wasn't a lot of fun, especially when the boss told me I was eating too much one day...
|
|
|
whitestu
|
| posted on 22/9/11 at 06:51 AM |
|
|
quote:
So, sadly, you are going to have to do what millions before have done....go where the work is.
As difficult as it is I think you've hit the nail on the nead there. I had to leave South Yorksire after the mining industry was closed down and
even getting any minimum wage job was a major battle. At the time my brother lived in Oxford and I could turn up and have a job the next day.
There is no shortage of jobs in and around London where I live now, but quality of life takes a hit as the kind of accommodation that can be afforded
is often pretty basic.
Most of the Eastern Europeans round here [and there are lots] are working, filling roles that can't be filled with local labour.
|
|
|
Ninehigh
|
| posted on 22/9/11 at 06:51 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
If I misunderstood your intent then I apologise.
I spent quite a long time being unemployed after a car smash that resulted in partial amnesia, thus rendering my qualifications null and void, not
because I am a lazy bum ( I have spent months on end working seven, eighteen hour days, so object to being catagorised as a lazy bum, because I once
spent more than six months on the dole) I even tried to get labouring work but couldn't get a start "because you are too
qualified".
I had my children before this event and didn't knock them out on the dole.
Like you, I started my own business because no one would give me a start.
Interesting to know that if you had been in charge I would have been gassed before I had the chance to start up a business and employ several other
people that were unemployed. Nes' pas?
Oh, by the way I'm disabled now, so would you like to gas me for being unemployed and useless?
Well I say unemployed, I did OK and retired at 48.
[Edited on 21/9/11 by Confused but excited.]
People who are unemployed because they lost their job, and are looking for another one aren't the problem. The problem is the people who left
school, signed on and carried on like that. I'm 31 and there are people my age who have never worked a day in their lives... I've been
just as broke as them all this time and rarely had less than a 9 hour day
|
|
|
Confused but excited.
|
| posted on 22/9/11 at 05:54 PM |
|
|
I couldn't agree more mate.
I have taken work in the past that left me less disposable income than being on the dole but gave me my self respect back.
What boiled my pee was the "anyone on the dole for > 6 months should be gassed". When there are people, some of them on here, that have
a great deal to contribute to society if given the chance. I don't like mob 'kill 'em all' mentality.
I could chearfully gas them all.
Not sure if that's satire or hypocrisy. 
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
|
|
|
blakep82
|
| posted on 22/9/11 at 06:01 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
I couldn't agree more mate.
I have taken work in the past that left me less disposable income than being on the dole but gave me my self respect back.
What boiled my pee was the "anyone on the dole for > 6 months should be gassed". When there are people, some of them on here, that have
a great deal to contribute to society if given the chance. I don't like mob 'kill 'em all' mentality.
I could chearfully gas them all.
Not sure if that's satire or hypocrisy.
+1 i don't like being on the dole, but to be told i'm better off dead, and that i'm basically worse than a murderer or rapist really
mashed my turnips...
to the point where that person was looking for a special part, i knew who had it, but i was keeping quiet lol. i'm evil...
[Edited on 22/9/11 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
|
|
|
Confused but excited.
|
| posted on 26/9/11 at 08:20 PM |
|
|
^ ROFPMSL Nice one!
I know what springs to mind. (That's me being subtle that is).
[Edited on 26/9/11 by Confused but excited.]
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 26/9/11 at 09:05 PM |
|
|
Chris,
I can't imagine the products that your new factories produce are going to be very high quality.
I'm out.
Matt
|
|
|
daviep
|
| posted on 26/9/11 at 09:29 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Chris,
I can't imagine the products that your new factories produce are going to be very high quality.
I'm out.
Matt
Are you trying to say that the majority of unemployed people are useless and would struggle to complete simple production line assembly correctly?
I don't think it'd work either.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
|
|
|
MikeFellows
|
| posted on 26/9/11 at 09:30 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
I couldn't agree more mate.
I have taken work in the past that left me less disposable income than being on the dole but gave me my self respect back.
What boiled my pee was the "anyone on the dole for > 6 months should be gassed". When there are people, some of them on here, that have
a great deal to contribute to society if given the chance. I don't like mob 'kill 'em all' mentality.
I could chearfully gas them all.
Not sure if that's satire or hypocrisy.
+1 i don't like being on the dole, but to be told i'm better off dead, and that i'm basically worse than a murderer or rapist really
mashed my turnips...
to the point where that person was looking for a special part, i knew who had it, but i was keeping quiet lol. i'm evil...
[Edited on 22/9/11 by blakep82]
lol
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 26/9/11 at 10:29 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Theshed
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
the biggest change needed is to firstly simplify the benefit system. It should be a simple payment for job seekers allowance, not a case of once you
are on the dole you get everything paid for (ie council tax, dental costs etc). They should budget like anyone else. Im all for cutting payments after
6 months, and also being made to work either before or after that point. It would need to be work that doesnt need close supervision and also work
that cannot be done badly. Or just introduce a flogging for shoddy work. It goes without saying that the Human Rights Act would be majorly
rewritten.
Also a more robust legal system to deal with repeat offenders/ career criminals.
I could go on all day.
Any particular section of the Human Rights Act you object to or are you just repeating what you read in the Daily Mail? The Human Rights Act simply
provides a mechanism for using the Convention on Human Rights agreed by most civilized nations after the horror of the 2nd World War. The reference to
Europe has nothing whatsoever to do with the EEC. Before the HRA it was possible to complain about a breach of the convention (and many UK citizens
did) but it was expensive and took years. The HRA simply sped things up. So much bull is talked about this simple bit of law mainly by the completely
ignorant.
I have no idea which particular part i object to, as ive never read it and dont intend to waste any time googling it, since no one actually gives a
toss about my opinion on what should be rewritten. But the fact remains that 'human rights' are to blame for many absurd situations
nowadays. It seems unlikely that, when first written, it was intended that these situations would arise - ie not deporting terrorists in case they get
abused back home, etc, as read in the Daily Mail daily. Do you think that the HRA works well as it is? I know you will probably reply that its
actually the ECHR, but im stubborn so will keep calling it the human rights act anyway. People will still know what i mean...
|
|
|
RK
|
| posted on 26/9/11 at 11:28 PM |
|
|
You can't always believe what you read either. Sometimes the small stories make things sound like things are out of hand everywhere, which is
not usually the case when all the facts are known. It is just easy to blame somebody else when things aren't going well for them. It's a
bit of a trap, it eats you up and does no good.
|
|
|
Ninehigh
|
| posted on 27/9/11 at 06:33 AM |
|
|
They could work on recycling plants so I don't have to p**s about washing yoghurt pots..
|
|
|
.jpg)
