undecided
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 06:29 PM |
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Stafford show
Hello,
Being new to kit cars i decided to go to Stafford and was wondering why two cars on show looked so much alike.
one in question the MK Indy i have heard of as they advertise in magazines the other the Type lr i hadn't.
So many parts looked th same dos anyon know if they are th same car?
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Staple balls
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 06:44 PM |
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Type lr is a mac#1 thingy?
didn't mac#1 used to build/sell MK's then set up on their own using similar designs?
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greggors84
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 06:47 PM |
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Type lr? is that from MAC 1?
A few kits have taken styling cues from MK, some might have used their panels as a mould (who knows).
The MAC 1s are very similar to the MK. But if you are looking for a MK lookalike you might as well buy an MK as they are the original and as Martin
designed it he knows how and why it works, not just that it does like the others.
(i think i heard MK say that at a show once)
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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undecided
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 07:09 PM |
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O dear i take it then that the type lr is a copy of the MK Indy rather than a new design?
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 07:25 PM |
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and it's amazing how many have built them with back to front and upside down wishbones
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Wadders
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 07:32 PM |
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Sorry bloke, but i had to laugh when i read your post. Surely all sevenesque cars are a loose copy of something which dates from the fifties. To say
MK's are in some way original is stretching the imagination a bit, to be more accurate the MK is a Caterham lookalike, with running gear more in
common with a Westfield.
Nothing against MK's BTW, they are a fine car, as are many of the other Seven clones out there.
Al.
i]Originally postedi]Originally posted by greggors84
Type lr? is that from MAC 1?
A few kits have taken styling cues from MK,
The MAC 1s are very similar to the MK. But if you are looking for a MK lookalike you might as well buy an MK as they are the original
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undecided
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 09:17 PM |
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Silly question:
When asked what was used for the floor i was told alumiunium chequer plate does this seem right?
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undecided
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 09:27 PM |
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I take it then that the use of chequer plate for the floor is not the right solution?
I have briefly read Ron Champion's book but found no sign of using it so had to ask.
Makes me wonder what else is not right!
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dozracing
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 09:49 PM |
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Chequer plate?
Thats really poor. Its massively heavy.
I've heard nothing but negative response about Mac, very unhelpful etc.. Everyone has only good things to say about MK, even though they
aren't particularly accomodating with customer emails and visits, but thats a reflection of how busy they are.
I know they are all based on Luts 7's etc, but such blatant copying is just so not on. I heard a story that they took an MK to a guy to make
jigs from so he could copy the chassis totally. Any fool can do that, it takes a little more intelligence to design something yourself even if you
take the concept from other people.
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Deckman001
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 10:03 PM |
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undecided
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| posted on 13/3/04 at 10:05 PM |
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oh my word what have i started.
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dozracing
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| posted on 14/3/04 at 12:33 AM |
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Actually the curves are the worst part of the MK. Anyone studying engineering knows that you don't feed loads into curved members.
MK do it for production reasons not for structural reasons.
Colin Chapman was a genius and a real engineer. How many curved members were in the original 7?
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Staple balls
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| posted on 14/3/04 at 01:11 AM |
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as a not an engineer
but having some idea.
i'd say the curved bits on an indy make little difference strength/stiffness wise and improve how it looks, but i'm waiting to be told
otherwise.
also, there's a few things i'd do differently if i was me, but that's unimportant 
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Hellfire
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 posted on 14/3/04 at 01:30 AM |
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Curved Members
I didn't realise the footwell curve on the MK Indy was under load?
Having said that - I guess all members are under "some" load. However, I doubt this area is critical load bearer...
On modern cars - isn't the crumple zone made from a series of curves, giving sequential/predictive crumpling?
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greggors84
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| posted on 14/3/04 at 01:35 AM |
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wadders
if you have seen the mac 1, you will know what i mean, and there has been discussions on this forum about copies of MKs. I know all sevens are
replicas of the lotus 7 (except maybe the caterham), but if you are going to buy a certain 7 for the way it looks, and people do, (if i had enough
money to afford a westie, i would go for something else, as i dont like the look of them), they might as well buy the original (in this case the
MK).
Some people say that the spd was a mk copy (so ive heard) and look what happened there!
[Edited on 14/3/04 by greggors84]
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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dozracing
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| posted on 14/3/04 at 07:45 AM |
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Don't get me wrong i totally appluad Martin for the MK and its success. The curved tubes make it faster for them to make etc.. All tubes in a
space frame are loaded thats how they work, and for "ultimate" structural integrity you shouldn't curve them. Thats not saying its
not a solution that is acceptable enough.
The MK was the most different of the 7's from the book, and it came first. So the likes of Mac flatter it by copying it, and thats praise for
Martin.
If you are an engineer with any skill or experience though there are plenty of things to do to make your 7 stand out from the crowd.
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M@Triton
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| posted on 14/3/04 at 10:29 AM |
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This looks to have been a bit heated!!!!!!
Bending tubes is best avoided as is the use of chequer plate unless of course it's a staircase being made!
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Staple balls
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| posted on 14/3/04 at 10:46 AM |
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it'd be interesting to see analysis of the MK indy, the gts whatsitcalled, the book chassis and the orignal seven.
i'm not sh!t stiring or trying to start arguments about which is better.
but it'd be nice to see which came out on top
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undecided
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| posted on 14/3/04 at 02:01 PM |
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Indeed it would be nice to know which product came out on top after testing, but i noticed that the front man of GTS is an F1 engineer and we all know
how techy those people are.
One wouldn't hesitate to suggest that this has already taken place as far as the GTS Locost is concerned.
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Noodle
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| posted on 14/3/04 at 06:04 PM |
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I realise that we don't criticise MK in this forum (tantamount to sacrilege  ), but it the curvature in the wishbones that have always bothered
me.
I can see that they’re made that way because it’s easier and no, I don’t know what loads they really take in the horizontal plane, but it’s clearly
not as structurally efficient.
If we’re being really pedantic, and I can be really pedantic, it requires more material to make an arc than to run to straight pieces that join
at the apex. More material=more weight.
Cheers,
Neil.
Your sort make me sick
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greggors84
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| posted on 14/3/04 at 06:51 PM |
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If any one wants to lend me one of each of the competitors, and an airfield for the day, i will gladly tell you which one (i think) is better!!
p.s. had better chuck in a caterham r500 and some busa engined thing, just so i know how they compare!!
[Edited on 14/3/04 by greggors84]
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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ned
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| posted on 15/3/04 at 10:51 AM |
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the chequer plate floor mentioned above was in one of mac1's cars, which as said above is a copy of the mk indy.
i always prefer stright tubes and triangles to curves, though the mk indy is a very good kit, design, originality (in the 7-esque sector) and price. i
had an arguement with someone a while back about this!
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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M@Triton
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 12:25 AM |
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No chance....toblerone's in the desert were built by little green blokes.
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Peteff
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 11:54 PM |
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No way!!!
The Egyptians built them as monuments to their great leaders using Nubian slave labourers in their millions. I have seen actual film footage of this
on T.V. so it must be true. The Aztecs were in league with aliens though, that's where they got all their strange ideas from.
[Edited on 20/3/04 by Peteff]
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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M@Triton
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| posted on 21/3/04 at 10:49 AM |
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I live next door to an alien so know for a fact they are real.......strange shiny glow from the top of his head and who knows what language he
speaks......who else would polish a wheelie bin!
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