John Bonnett
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 01:47 PM |
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Advice sought on making a waterwheel generator
Stung by the hike in electricity prices, I've decided to have a go at making a water wheel generator.
There is a great depth of knowledge on this site and I'd be glad if anyone who has experience in using deep cycle batteries, 12 to 240 Volt
inverters to power a house or to help with the electricity demand, I'd be pleased to hear from you.
We have the stream and I should be able to make a leat, launder and overshot wheel without too much difficulty. The help I'm looking for is in
gearing of the alternator, battery capacity and size of inverter and anything else I've not mentioned through not fully understanding the whole
job.
I look forward to your replies.
John
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AndyW
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 01:58 PM |
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check this diy build out
go on, give me a click......
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stevegough
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 02:09 PM |
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That's a pretty cool idea. - Quite well researched and executed. A friend at work has spent the last year doing something similar -making a
small windmill generator - I must ask him how he's doing with it...
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 02:28 PM |
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Thank you for that Andy, it is the kind of thing I'm looking at doing but wonder how durable the marine ply would be over time. I was thinking
about making the wheel frames in stainless steel with just the paddles being in hardwood. It looks like the diameter of his wheel is probably about 4
ft which is what I'm looking at building. I'd prefer not to pay out over £100 for a generator if I could run one from a car sufficiently
quick to provide enough charge for the batteries. This is the point where I leave my comfort zone and would be pleased with some guidance.
Steve, I'd be grateful for any information you can get from your friend. Thank you.
John
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BenB
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 02:41 PM |
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The advantage of wind power is you don't have to pay anyone for using the wind. With a water wheel you have to pay for the privelage. Never
could work that one out...
Good idea though!
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 02:47 PM |
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Ben, how so?
"With a water wheel you have to pay for the privelage. Never could work that one out... "
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 02:55 PM |
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I think that you need a licence from the water authorities to run a water-powered generator...
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karlak
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 03:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I think that you need a licence from the water authorities to run a water-powered generator...
Yep, I understand that you own the bank of the waterway thru your property, but not the water in it.
Did'nt stop a friend of mine sluicing a stream and making a huge Carp pond/lake on his property.  .. But, I reckon the watet board would not
be impressed if they ever found out that their stream feeds his lake.
[Edited on 20/2/11 by karlak]
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 03:10 PM |
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Yes thinking about it David you're right. A DoE licence is needed to take water from a river or stream.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 03:11 PM |
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Leaving legalities aside the cheapest and easiest way to use wind/water/solar is to link a 12v alternator straight to a 12v immersion heater, you
need a battery as well to kick start the alternator excitation.
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 03:42 PM |
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Thank you BT. What I am hoping to do is to switch off the Mains and hook up to my own 240Volt supply run by the water wheel, alternator, deep cycle
batteries and 12Volt to 240Volt inverter. I believe the household supply is 100Amp but in normal use, only a fraction of that would be drawn. What I
do not know how to calculate is what how the Wattage used in the house relates to the Wattage drawn from the batteries. Sorry for being a numpty.
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BenB
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 04:05 PM |
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240v @ 100A = 2000A @12v (quite a lot  ).
And of course really you need to add in a little extra as inverters are far from 100% efficient.
Aiming to go mains free is quite a high expectation.
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coozer
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 04:09 PM |
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Did anyone see 'Its not easy being green'? Dick Strawbridge and his clan in a farmhouse trying to be self sufficient.
They had a stream and the water wheel was about 12' diameter if I remember right, and that was just big enough to power the lights!
Clickerty Click!
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 04:12 PM |
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Thanks Ben. Apart from when the washing machine is on I'd have thought that our general consumption would be quite low. I'd need to take
some meter readings to put numbers on it but apart from the central heating boiler we are only talking lighting, telly and computer.
Coozer, I did watch that series. If it needs a 12ft wheel just for the lights we could be dead in the water!!
[Edited on 20/2/11 by John Bonnett]
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Ivan
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 04:27 PM |
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I agree with Britishtrident - something a 12v immersion heater in your boiler or geyser is the answer or get a paraffin fridge and use a 12v element
in that instead of flame- I would think that batteries are incredibly expensive for the power they afford (not tested thought tho' and an
inverter capable of supplying that peak, and if you can avoid that then there might be value in what you do.
You need to put a logging ammeter on your supply for a while to pick up on your peak current draw and daily draw before designing anything. It will
also give you a good idea of where savings can be made and what storage and charging capacity is needed.
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BenB
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 04:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Did anyone see 'Its not easy being green'? Dick Strawbridge and his clan in a farmhouse trying to be self sufficient.
They had a stream and the water wheel was about 12' diameter if I remember right, and that was just big enough to power the lights!
Clickerty Click!
Certainly did, quite an impressively big wheel they had too!! It was big old barn though so quite a few lights. Personally I'd be tempted to run
a water wheel using the stream to power a heat-source pump (using the stream as the heat source).
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BenB
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 04:31 PM |
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http://www.heatpumps.co.uk/types.htm might be of interest (particularly the bit about hydro powered heat pumps)
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JoelP
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 05:05 PM |
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I think BT has the right approach, the less you convert the energy teh less you loose. So leaving it as 12v dc is probably best. Using it to preheat a
tank of water would make your boiler do less work.
You can also look into backing the stream up slightly to get more head, though this depends on your location!
I do think that this is just one aspect you could look at though, it might be more economical to just insulate your house more!
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JoelP
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 05:08 PM |
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someone check these sums and assumptions please!
if the stream is flowing at about 10 litres per second, and you can harness 25% of the energy as it falls one metre, is that not a meagre 25w that you
would have?
Assuming 10 litres is 10kgs and thus roughly 100 newtons.
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Russell
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 05:22 PM |
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I recall from the Dick Strawbridge programme that you can power a waterwheel for free so long as only a certain amount of water passes over it in a
given time. Dick's wheel passed a bit too much and he either had to pay or bypass the wheel (can't remember the outcome).
I'm a bilingual illiterate. I can't read in two languages.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 11:11 PM |
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I wonder if it would be more feasible to have some fitted to the gutter drains, and the sink drains (but not the toilet drains, I don't think
they'd work too well) or maybe even one as the starndard water pressure comes into the header tank
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 20/2/11 at 11:28 PM |
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John,
Surely you would be better putting it back into the mains. That way you get the feed in money.
With this (admittedly crazy) scheme, you get more money for the power that you generate than you pay for power. 20p/kWh under the present scheme for
small hydro. (£1600 per year per kW)
http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/
You wouldn't need to store energy, as any extra would just go back into the grid. I guess you need some electronics to control the phase of the
power that you are generating and sync it to the mains, but it can't be rocket science.
So, if you build the hardware (at 12v) and find its generating a decent amount of power then it might be worth investigating how to feed it into the
mains.
I know a guy who uses a car alternator attached to a windmill. He replaces it with a new one every 18months. This would correspond to about
30mph*24hours*500days or 360,000miles, I guess it runs about half the time as you wouldn't expect an alternator to last that long.
Go for it,
Matt
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 21/2/11 at 07:12 AM |
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Thank you Matt; another possibility to lower my electricity bill.
I've done a bit of research since my first post and there is an opinion that a water wheel will not generate much power because it rotates too
slowly and that a water turbine is the way to go. However, if the wheel and water flow will allow for suitable gearing of the alternator, I cannot see
why it would not work just as well. A wheel would certainly be a lot easier to build than a turbine.
Another problem that I'll have is the sheer distance of the stream from our house; something like 100yds. I'd imagine that it would be
best to site the batteries and inverter close to the wheel and use 2.5T&E armoured cable to bring the 240Volts up to the house.
Thank you all for your very helpful and considered replies.
John
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BenB
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| posted on 21/2/11 at 08:30 AM |
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Ideally you would get the voltage as high as possible. Realistically in this kind of setting 240v is high enough (especially when there's water
knocking about). That does of course mean having any batteries used outside and lead-acid type batteries don't enjoy cold weather. This of
course is irrelevant if you're just going for immediate use / back onto the grid.
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karlak
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| posted on 21/2/11 at 09:13 AM |
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I think I would investigate the possibility of a something more like a turbine running through a pipe. You have the Dam wall, then fit a Pipe,
similar to a drain pipe at the base of the wall - this pipe could then channel a lot of water under high pressure, driving a "turbine" of
some description.
It wont look quite so quaint, but essentally I think this is how hydro dams work. Use the water at the base of the dam as it is higher pressure.
Another advantage would be less maintenance, flood proof and will be quieter I guess.
Excellent project though and well worth looking into
. Wish I had a stream in the garden - So do our ducks.....
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
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