Dunc
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| posted on 11/10/02 at 11:46 AM |
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Engine advice from mechanics please, ie Conrod.
On way to work this morning wifes escort started making funny noises and cut out. On roadside inspection, ie no tools out, the timing belt is loose
and seems to be skipping over the cam pulleys. It does not seem to be broken. What I'd like to know is on the escort 1600 zetec engines, can damage
to the pistons and valves occur if the belt skips or breaks or is there enough clearance to prevent damage.
I really don't want to have to strip the engine if it's just a case of fixing the belt tensioner. The cars done 170,000 miles and all it's needed
is a clutch but it's beginning to use oil and I'd prefer to just buy a used engine rather than fix it if there is a possibility of internal
damage.
Cheers
Dunc,
(weekend/ bad weather tinkerer)
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 11/10/02 at 01:41 PM |
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I am no expert, but if you're not planning to fix the engine if it has serious problems, I would be tempted to re-set the belt using instructions in
a Haynes manual and see what happens.
It's either going to run again, or the valves have hit the pistons and it's stuffed! That's just about the only thing that can go wrong if the
belt goes.
good luck!
David
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 11/10/02 at 05:54 PM |
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yup valve dammage will ocur on those engines,best bet is new engine as they arnt cheap to rebuild,i got a spare head if you want one though,hth
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 11/10/02 at 07:07 PM |
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170,000 on the same engine and you are worried about having to take the head off.
Thats a minor miracle.
You see lots of 11 year old or so escorts in the garages around here for 900 quid or so.
Id junk the car and buy a cheapie.
atb
steve
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johnston
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| posted on 11/10/02 at 08:54 PM |
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put a belt on and try (see if it turns over by hand first) if it runs but badly do a compression test
and if it doesnt run or compression is low just pull the head of for the hell of it
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bob
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| posted on 11/10/02 at 09:03 PM |
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Cam tensioner siezed,my mates did and caused no end of damage to head.
Doesnt andy hewing sell zetec lumps of all sizes?
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Dunc
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| posted on 11/10/02 at 10:32 PM |
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Don't want to scrap it, it's only 6 years old. Body still excellent and I've just overhauled the brakes, suspension etc. Not been able to look at
engine yet coz of the pissy weather, but since I now know that the Zetec is a high risk for valve damage I can at least price an engine and gearbox
before I think about rebuilding the engine. Could always use it as a donor engine if I repair at my leisure. Cheers for the advice lads.
Dunc.
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rallyslag
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| posted on 12/10/02 at 05:34 PM |
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would be a good excuse to drop in a bigger engine
Old chinese proverb: "If a man speaks in a forest, and no woman hears him, is he still wrong?"
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steve m
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| posted on 12/10/02 at 09:33 PM |
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i would still try a new cam belt first before junking the engine
new belt = £15 + your time and could save loads of dosh on a new engine
fyi, friends transit minibus (2ltr pinto) with 250,000+ on clock broke a timing belt
i changed it, and minibus still runs every day clocking up about 500 miles every week
total cost to friend £50.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 12/10/02 at 10:39 PM |
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if geometrically the valves hit the pistons, there aint a lotta point ignoring it and just trying a new belt!
I just dropped a valve on the floor once and just that bent it such that when the engine warmed up it snagged in the guides.
atb
steve
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david walker
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| posted on 13/10/02 at 07:58 AM |
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The Zetec engine will tolerate belt slippage of one tooth max. Two teeth = bent valves.
The Pinto (in standard form)is a completly different question, a broken belt causes no damage whatsoever.
I don't know where you're from but for a full repair including a belt kit, including the tensioner etc we would charge £320 + vat. (Notts area). To
supply and fit a good quality clutch (not a Ford recon) would be about £140 + vat. Not looking for work, just trying to give you an idea of the costs
you face.
BTW I don't have the Haynes manual but do run a fair sized engine business.
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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chrisg
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| posted on 13/10/02 at 11:19 AM |
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David,
quote:
The Pinto (in standard form)is a completly different question, a broken belt causes no damage whatsoever.
This is true for the 2 litre, but a broken belt on a 1.6 does result in bent valves - I know this from bitter experience!!
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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StuartA
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| posted on 13/10/02 at 11:55 AM |
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quote:
Doesnt andy hewing sell zetec lumps of all sizes?
He sure does... we got a 1.8 off him for £150.
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Dunc
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| posted on 13/10/02 at 05:48 PM |
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Just got the belt etc off, no damage at all to belt. The tensioner wheel however is a different matter. Some genius at ford designed the tensioner
wheel with a plastic surround to the metal bearing which shattered causing the belt to come loose. Trouble is I still don't know how much the timing
slipped until I get a new tensioner.
Might drop Andy Hewing an email in the very near future.
Dunc.
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bob
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| posted on 13/10/02 at 06:14 PM |
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Told ya dunc,as i posted earlier.
Must admit it did well though for 190k,if my MK5 does half that i'll be happy.
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Dunc
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| posted on 15/10/02 at 04:21 PM |
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Well its confirmed, bent valves etc etc. Looking for a replacement engine and gearbox. (discouloured metal on head has that familer orange tinge that
suggests well worn bearing shells, but still surprisingly clear of black sludge) Cheapest I've had for both is £350, seem reasonable?
Anyway cheers for the advice lads.
Dunc
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Dunc
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| posted on 16/10/02 at 01:19 PM |
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Conrod,
How much are you wanting for the head? Is it for the 1.6?
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Mi167
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| posted on 16/10/02 at 04:02 PM |
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Sounds like the cam tensioner has seized, yes contact will occour if it jumps more than 1-2 teeth,
best have the head off and inspect everything
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 16/10/02 at 04:38 PM |
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head came off an escort so asume its 1600,im west london,bring some cash and bribe me.0208 423 1025 days 0208 845 9784 eves
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Dunc
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| posted on 16/10/02 at 05:34 PM |
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I'm in Embro ( Edinburgh ) but my bro's staying in Wembly so could ask him to go and bribe you. Might be going to Bedford Sunday Monday though so
could do the next 35 mile or so to the Big Smoke. I'll give you a call.
Getting another engine and gearbox friday, so another weekend of no locost progress. Kicking myself though, thought that the engine would fail due to
big end/ main bearing failure. Didn't think it would be the tensioner. D'oh! Just changed the belt at 160,000, as per book, but being a locoster
only replaced belt and not the guides etc. That'll teach me.
Is the 1.8 head the same as the 1.6? Just curious, thinking of using this gubbed engine, with your working head of course, rebuild bottom end and fit
to locost in future.
Cheers Lads.
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rallyslag
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| posted on 16/10/02 at 05:45 PM |
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well if i were you id get the 1.8 for the locost
the 1.6 has as much tuning capability as a dead slug
Old chinese proverb: "If a man speaks in a forest, and no woman hears him, is he still wrong?"
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 16/10/02 at 06:26 PM |
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my garage is 5 mins from wembley 0208 423 1025should fit only differences i can see would be valve sizes,ill look in my book of words morrow
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