theconrodkid
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 06:37 PM |
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3ph wiring
i,m going to hard wire in a 3ph mig tommorow,is there anything i should know or is it join like colours and stand well back?
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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ChrisW
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 06:42 PM |
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Make sure the systems are the same. Star has a neutral pin, delta doesn't. You can connect delta kit to a star outlet but not the other way
around.
Other than that, just hook up the three phases (yellow, red, blue) and the neutral, stand back and hope.
Oh, and if anyone asks, you did it last year (wiring regs changed on 1st Jan to make it illegal to mess with wiring yourself!)
Chris
My gaff my rules
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 07:02 PM |
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chris,plug on welder has 4 terms,its going into a switch box
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 07:04 PM |
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remember that the colours changed recently too!
you can still do wiring if it is only repair and maintainance, or the installation of new light and power points. Hence adding a new shower isnt
allowed unless you are qualified.
how the hell they will prove the date of installation i dont know. im fitting a new shower at the minute!
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 07:09 PM |
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the factory was built in the 1970,s,the welder in the 1870,s so i cant see a prob there,btw how am i sposed to know about these rule changes?
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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Mikey G
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 07:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
chris,plug on welder has 4 terms,its going into a switch box
No neutral then, its just 3 colours and earth, make sure your socket is wired the same, if you have a five pin socket you will need to locate the 3ph
wires and only wire those needed without the neutral into a 5 pin plug.
Sounds to me you have a simple 3ph and earth so its just a matter of connecting them up.
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tony9876
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 07:36 PM |
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Requirement P came into force on the 1st Jan and only allows very basic work to be carried out unless you are a registered domestic installer. The
NICEIC have also just bought Zurich insurance so rumour has it they are going to enforce the law by you needing a satisfactory inspection report
before insuring your property. It is a good step forward to push cowboys out of the market and stop novices messing about with B&Q specials. If
you carry out any work(excludes the simple changing of switch plates etc) in a domestic dweling including your own and building control find out you
will be hit with a fine upto £5000 and forced to make good the wiring.
About the welder it sounds like you have a 3-phase and earth but when you said how old the welder is i would make sure just in case it has no earth
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 07:42 PM |
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havnt taken the plug to bits,it has 4 terms,how many wires inside i wont know till tomorow
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 08:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tony9876
Requirement P came into force on the 1st Jan and only allows very basic work to be carried out unless you are a registered domestic installer. The
NICEIC have also just bought Zurich insurance so rumour has it they are going to enforce the law by you needing a satisfactory inspection report
before insuring your property. It is a good step forward to push cowboys out of the market and stop novices messing about with B&Q specials. If
you carry out any work(excludes the simple changing of switch plates etc) in a domestic dweling including your own and building control find out you
will be hit with a fine upto £5000 and forced to make good the wiring.
About the welder it sounds like you have a 3-phase and earth but when you said how old the welder is i would make sure just in case it has no earth
It's not a good step forward at all, it just smacks of more nanny state meddling. It absolutely won't stop cowboys or determined
DIYers.
How are they supposed to tell when something was installed anyway?
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 08:23 PM |
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two links:
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_029960.pdf
page 10, table 1
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_033480.pdf
yellow box, topside.
Having just re read it, work in kitchens and bathrooms is not exempt... might be time to get qualified.
[Edited on 5/1/05 by JoelP]
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Deckman001
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 08:25 PM |
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Don't forget to check the size of conectors you use, you need the right rated ones so as not to melt them with the load !!
Jason
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 08:58 PM |
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Now we can charge the earth! and get back at all those skinflint cheapskate B&Q arses that wanted expensive work done for nothing! Sparkys of
the world unite! That inspection and testing qualification is gonna pay for its self many times.......meggers at the ready.....
Rant over.!! The idiots were the main reason why I moved into the RF engineering sector..
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zilspeed
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| posted on 5/1/05 at 11:02 PM |
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Is it the same in Scotland where we have different technical standards to adhere to ?
I'm sure there will be a comparable rule.
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tony9876
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 10:03 AM |
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Of course it is a good idea,they changed the regulations about pissing about with gas years ago and that has worked to a good level. Its simple if you
dont know what you are doing and bodge a job up then next time you try to sell your house or insure it and a certificate is needed your in the S!!t
just like building an extension without planning permission. I agree on some levels about big brother and all that but anything that stops morons
messing about with potentially lethal diy is a step forward. Why is it that very few people will tinker with gas even though you can smell it but
everyone and there dog fancies themselves as an electrician.
IIf you havent guessed it yet i am an electrical engineer and am talking through experience of visiing fire damaged propertys etc. Last year i got
called to a house 3 days after Christmas because an 18 year old lad had bought a fitting from B&Q for his bathroom. He just switched the light
from the pullcord stood on the bath to fit it and proceeded to send 50hz through his heart and he died. If the level of awareness was a lot higher
then this wouldn't of happened.
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splitrivet
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 04:40 PM |
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Ive got mixed views, A) it aint going to stop idiots messing because you cant prove when they did the work. and B) the guy who does the work has to
have taken the latest certification.So guys like myself with years in the trade are still classed as guys at A unless we take part P.
Its the same as BS5750 standards and that ISO crap just jobs for the boys.
Cheers,
Bob
[Edited on 6/1/05 by splitrivet]
I used to be a Werewolf but I'm alright nowwoooooooooooooo
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JoelP
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 06:43 PM |
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same for me bob, ring circuitry is simple stuff and i fiddle it all day at work, fitting kitchens. Now i need to waste loads of time and money doing
courses for all the other aspects of electrial engineering (outside stuff, consumer units, 3ph etc) that i dont need to know.
it sucks. customers for the next few weeks are going to get shafted big time when i pass on the bills from a qualified sparky.
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 06:54 PM |
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i think i stired up a hornets nest here,i am a mechanic by trade and i have seen things done on cars that would make you cringe only fred in the shed
but main dealer types as well.they wanted the switchbox moved to other side of the wall now so i declined the job and are getting a sparkie to do
it.
so they now have to pay sparkie and buy a gas regulator,cheaper to buy a new 1ph set?????
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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tony9876
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 07:29 PM |
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Joel,do you fit all your own gas piping or do you get a plumber in?
Ring circuits maybe simple but do you know how to test them and all the other countless regs that go with installing a ring main?Do yo make sure the
circuit is on an RCD if it is downstairs? If your connecting to an old ring do you test the rest of the house to make sure its all sound?
Again i cant stress enough that although this is not a perfect solution it is deffinently a step in the right direction. As my company is nic
registered i didnt need to do anything other than sign a form and i was legal. I have been to countless electrical fires and 90% of them is faulty
wiring.
The way I look at it is if you know what your doing it is a simple case of completing the registered domestic installer paperwork and having an
on-site inspection.So unless you dont know what your doing and are worried about people checking your work there isnt a problem.
I still think this is a way forward in raising awareness of how dangerous electricity is.
Do you think the colours changed this year is just pure coincidence or maybe is will be the way we know how old the installation is.
If the installation that has been carried out is satisfactory it wont matter when it was installed anyway.The idea is not to clamp down on decent
installations its to give building control the power to fine cowboys and strip bad workmanship out.
Again if you are qualified and do a decent job what is there to worry about?
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Peteff
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 07:43 PM |
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So...
Can I put a new plug on this toaster or what?
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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gazza285
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 07:44 PM |
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Look at it as a sort of SVA for electric.
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adz h
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 08:01 PM |
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part p
3 phase is not a domestic install and is not coverd by part p so can anyone do it!
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JoelP
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| posted on 6/1/05 at 08:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tony9876
Joel,do you fit all your own gas piping or do you get a plumber in?
our corgi gas man is worrying - he cuts 'live' gas pipes and puts compression valves on whilst gas is coming out!
quote:
Again if you are qualified and do a decent job what is there to worry about?
im not qualified. i know the basics of the regulations. I use green sleeving, run wires vertical in walls, and check that the modified circuits have
suitable fuses. Beyond that, im not there to check old wiring - if they want that, get a sparky in. All i tell them is that my bit is safe. I usually
advise them to upgrade to a modern consumer unit anyway. If there are no RCDs in, i dont put any in - likewise, thats a sparkies job.
I appreciate where you're coming from, its just annoying having to take time out to get legal, even though it will probably improve the standard
of my work.
Last week i wired a 6mm cable to my new hob in, adding a new MCB into the board. No qualificatons and no previous experience, but it was easy, works
fine, and seems safe. I checked over the phone with a sparky mate that i had it wired right.
Having seen some of the wiring ive replaced though, i agree about cowboy installers - some seriously shady practices like one socket with the live and
earth both bare for a few inches and blackened from years of sparking together...
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tony9876
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 09:20 AM |
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You will be surprised but if you add to an existing ring main and it is dodgy you may be held responsible as the last person on the job qualified or
not. The i.e.e regs are not a legal document but can be and have been used in a court of law.If god forbid someone dies and negligence can be
proved(which isnt that hard)the charge is manslaughter. Negligence could be something simple like a person plugging into one of the kitchen sockets
with an extension lead to run a lawnmower on damp grass.Cutting through a cable touching it and dying.If the original circuit wasn't rcd
protected you joined onto it and never covered your arse it will be you in the dock.That has actually happened.In todays culture its all about
covering your arse because where theres blame theres a claim and all it takes is a minor shock to end up in court.
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 07:27 PM |
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very true. im trying to find the easiest way to get both suitable qualifications and registered. any suggestions?!
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tony9876
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 10:26 AM |
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Phone the nic part p domestic installers help line. If they come out and inspect you and you show a fair degree of confidence thats it.You will
probably have to do 16th edition and testing and inspection though mate.
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