russbost
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| posted on 30/9/25 at 09:48 AM |
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Digital I.D. cards
Surprised no one else has mentioned it as yet, what do we think of digital I.D.'s?
My own two pennorth - will it stop illegal working - no, not a hope in hell, it might discourage the odd Uber or Deliveroo driver, but the digital ID
will check only who's signed up to do the job, not who's doing it - as for the totally illegal rings running anything from sweat shops to
prostitution & drugs, how could it possibly make the slightest difference, these people are already waaaay outside the law, they're hardly
going to be asking for an ID check!!!
Ok, so will it stop the boats - ummm, let's think about that for a minute - how exactly, you escort them into Dover harbour & then set them
up in a hotel with 3 meals a day & a mobile phone & bus pass, they can then apply for legal status in which case they can apply for a digital
ID the same as anyone else, in fact, would presumably be automatically issued with it as soon as they become legal rather than illegal
Further we have a £40bn black hole, or is it 44 or will it be 100 by Xmas, either way that's pretty impressive from the £9bn they took off the
Tories which quickly became 22 when they settled the Dr's & other strikes as soon as they came into power - presumably this is the growth,
growth, growth they were talking about cos I'm not seeing any anywhere else
So however big this black hole is, apparently the scheme is likely to cost £2bn, so there's another 2 to add onto all the above figures, &
likely to cost around £100 mill upwards a year to run (source of the figures was the Guardian, notoriously left wing, so I doubt they are
exaggerated), add to this that the most likely candidate to run this is apparently Multiverse, guess who the CEO is ---Euan Blair, yup, Tony B
Liar's son, now ok, that is pure speculation at the moment, but no wonder the plan gets his backing - in fact he tried to introduce ID cars
during his Government, but got shot down & never happened - Oh, & just to add apparently Euan's shares are worth around £375m
You may guess from the above I'm really not a fan of the idea, even tho' I probably wouldn't have to have one being over pensionable
age, whatever your political persuasions may be, I'd love to hear an argument for how they will work, save the country money, stop the illegal
immigration & working etc!
Just to be 100% clear, I have no problem with legal immigration, providing there are proper checks in place that they are not criminals, able to
clearly understand, read, write & speak reasonable English & that they are coming to a job, not to go on benefits or bring along dozens of
family members none of whom speak English & all wanting to claim benefits. Apparently net immigration since 2020 is around 3 million, no idea if
that figure includes illegals?) I can't see that as sustainable, so perhaps checks aren't stringent enough?
[Edited on 30/9/25 by russbost]
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 30/9/25 at 10:34 AM |
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We already have to prove UK Citizenship/right to work/etc. when renting a home, opening a bank account or taking a job and that has clearly not
stopped the black economy, so no digital ID won't make any difference to illegal immigration or work.
On the other side, I have fears of how it could become necessary for everyday transactions, internet use, payment when shopping, etc., allowing
government to track what and where you look, spend and on what (censorship and carbon/sugar/alcohol budgets anyone?)
My son, who works in cybersecurity and digital forensics and knows just how much data can be gleaned, collated and analysed, foresees many more
problems and potentially frightening futures with it.
I am OK with digital ID as long as it is guaranteed never to go beyond the level of the police checking that the name and address I give them brings
up a photo that shows that it is me - as can be done from the DVLA database now.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 30/9/25 at 10:53 AM |
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I have to agree, I don't see a benefit to any of the use cases they're quoting. Above board workplaces are already using existing checks,
and the rest wouldn't bother anyway. I can see a possible 'middle ground' where workplaces rely on paper copies of documents.
They're easy to fake, so somewhere might employ an illegal person without realising? But even as I type that I appreciate it's a pretty weak
argument.
My concern (being in IT) is as Steve mentions, it's online data that even if it's 100% secure (which it can't be) can be open for
misuse by government agencies. When it does get leaked or hacked, it won't take much for the information to pop up on the Dark Web, then the very
criminals it's intended to block will have all the employment credentials they could possibly want.
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jacko
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| posted on 30/9/25 at 05:28 PM |
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One good thing about the iD is I have read old age pension clambers. Don’t have to have it
Jacko
555
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 1/10/25 at 07:17 AM |
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as above, thats why cash is king, dont need a permit to work etc.
have a look how it works in Chinah,you have a personal credit score, say the wrong words
and you wont be able to buy food, travel etc, if you have not read 1984 maybe you should.
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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JC
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| posted on 1/10/25 at 07:20 AM |
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When it blatantly and obviously won’t achieve what it is purported to do, one can’t help but wonder what they actually want to use it for……
My instagram popped up with a Margaret Thatcher speech from the 80’s about ‘Socialists and ID cards’. I know to many she is a divisive figure, but
what she said was eerily accurate compared to what is happening right now.
Especially as nowadays I feel uncomfortable even expressing any opinions on mainstream social media for fear I will get shouted down, cancelled or
worse.
The world has gone nuts! I’ll just go back to my shed, turn the music up and shut the door lol
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 1/10/25 at 10:22 PM |
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Lived in NL for 3 years. Had to have a digital id for access to anything tax, government, employment or health related. All works flawlessly, makes
life very simple and very smooth. Not required for shopping or banks etc, not linked to much else. Legally had to carry my passport everywhere. Not
really sure what all the fuss is about.
Certainly stops people working illegally because the employers are paranoid about being caught. Could Bob do Jim's work? Only if the employer
never sets eyes on the worker, and that means that in things like uber, their checks are more stringent and more involved. They are utterly crippled
if they're found to be employing illegal folk. But then they're used to people from all over europe moving in and out freely and ironically
the main complaint is about wealthy folk turning up taking the better paid jobs.
[Edited on 1/10/2025 by coyoteboy]
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 2/10/25 at 12:26 PM |
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The worry here is that it provides little - we already have to prove our ID to employers, so those working in the black economy are already working
for employers who ignore the requirements. Therefore the risks of the UK government extending it further and further, leading to a Chinese style
social score, carbon budget, tracking, etc.; the risk of it being demanded by businesses "for your protection" and the risks of the database
being hacked, seem too much, for no real benefit.
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MikeR
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| posted on 2/10/25 at 10:51 PM |
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Everyone has a unique NHS ID. Everyone over 16 has a unique National Insurance ID. If you've had to deal with HMRC you've got another unique
ID. 75% of people over 18 have a photo ID (its called a driving license - and its unique). 85% of the entire population have photo ID (its called a
passport - and its unique).
So for the love of god please stop saying "I don't want ID". You already have it.
I'm old enough to remember the moaning and complaints about getting a photocard driving license ........... nothing bad happened.
Now will it make a difference ......... see coyoteboy - except we'll probably not go that far due to all the moaning so it will be half arsed and
therefore not effective.
For me the biggest concern is the people on the fringe who have a 'grandad' phone that isn't smart. How will they be covered. What
about if something goes wrong.
Will it cost a lot of money. Some definitely, but people in this sort of area on the caterham board are explaining how you'd extend this system,
add that and its not a start from scratch (although the slightly more worrying part is it can possibly be done under existing legislation so
wouldn't need debating in parliament. There are counter claims about how much it could save .......... perhaps we need to stop guessing costs and
badger our mp's to debate this and produce accurate costings.
Oh and the government doesn't give out smart phones to immigrants - its a common misconception. Some charities do and I believe a lot of people
come with them.
As for immigration ........ illegal immigration accounts for approx 3 or 4% of the people coming over - its not the issue on the grand scheme of
things - but making everyone live a virtually impossible existence when they get here doesn't encourage lawful and sensible integration so
problems self perpetuate.
Do we have a problem, yeah ......... but we used to have a solution when we were part of the Dublin accord which brexit forced us to leave. Now
we're pissing in the wind with wild claims and counter claims. But we also have a problem with the ratio of old people to working people so we
could do with a lot of immigrants rolling up their sleeves, doing some work and paying taxes.
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Twobeers
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| posted on 2/10/25 at 11:23 PM |
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Absolutely appalling idea. It is a ridiculous notion to consider entrusting the state with such a powerful personal weapon. Sure it will start out as
an innocuous 'look it's convenient and it's cheap to operate' but you've opened pandora's box in terms of how it can be
developed and used over time. Today, probably fine. 10 years time after some currently unimaginable crisis, it will be abused. And politicians are the
very last people I trust to do the right thing.
The giveaway is to launch it on the basis that this will somehow control illegal immigration. Disingenuous is the polite term.
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MikeR
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| posted on 2/10/25 at 11:35 PM |
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Because look how they've abused your NHS id & passport and etc etc etc
Oh wait, they haven't....
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JC
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| posted on 3/10/25 at 06:25 AM |
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The problem really is that no one trusts the government - whether it’s this one, or the next, or the one after that.
Once the enablers are put in place, it’s simple for them to expand the scope of something like that - just set up another civil service department and
away we go.
Your passport is used to track your movements. You can apply and the government will give you the data that they hold on how many times you come into
and out of the country. That data is now shared with HMRC for tax purposes - if you purport to be earning abroad for example. I didn’t agree to that
when I applied for a passport. I think it would be naive to think that won’t happen with a ‘digital ID’.
It’s being brought in using the current frenzy of immigration fear as an excuse - Labour have wanted to do this since the 1980s and now they have the
perfect excuse. It blatantly will have no effect on immigration - Starmer must know this. So why DOES he want to bring it in…..and that’s where the
trust falls down.
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Twobeers
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| posted on 3/10/25 at 07:06 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Because look how they've abused your NHS id & passport and etc etc etc
Oh wait, they haven't....
I know that i sound like some raving conspiracy theorist with this view but it is my genuine belief that combining multiple agency information onto a
smart phone type device opens up numerous potential for abuse at some point in the future. The problem we have with a lot of technology today is that
we examine carefully the benefits at the outset but we don't consider the downsides carefully enough.
Part of this is instinctive; we're excited by the benefits. By way of example, who genuinely would have thought that the use of social media
platforms would give rise to so much anxiety and mental health issues for young people within a relatively short period? Not me for sure.
This is the problem, it's hard to know what you don't know, particularly in complex areas like data, tracking and behaviour etc. It's
easy to demonstrate the immediate benefits. Hey look, from your movement we can predict a heart attack and have an ambulance with you when it happens,
or before it happens. Sure, great benefit, but how about that same information predicting your health costs and adjusting your NI contributions
accordingly?
Not saying it's a great example, but when you have successive governments facing extreme expenditure pressure the temptation to coerce through
digital means will eventually be irresistible in my opinion.
It is very important not to assume that the government will always act in your best interest. Of many factors, incompetence being one of them.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 3/10/25 at 09:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Certainly stops people working illegally because the employers are paranoid about being caught. Could Bob do Jim's work? Only if the employer
never sets eyes on the worker, and that means that in things like uber, their checks are more stringent and more involved. They are utterly crippled
if they're found to be employing illegal folk. But then they're used to people from all over europe moving in and out freely and ironically
the main complaint is about wealthy folk turning up taking the better paid jobs.
That's an interesting viewpoint, having employers paranoid about being caught and crippled if they're found. Perhaps that's the element
that the UK should bring in rather than just ID? My wife asked me about a company director who'd had a string of less-than-legitimate companies,
each time he was caught he simply got closed down and opened up another, with probably only a marginal loss of profit. Perhaps if the penalties for
company non-compliance were greater then it wouldn't be so lucrative? Then the existing employment processes would suffice, rather than needing
an extra piece of (electronic) paper.
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russbost
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| posted on 3/10/25 at 09:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Because look how they've abused your NHS id & passport and etc etc etc
Oh wait, they haven't....
But the above ID's aren't digital, certainly not in the same way as the proposed smart ID is, they can't track you, your spending
habits, where & when you take holidays etc etc - completely different, an NHS ID tracks your visits to the Dr & hospital, a passport tracks
your movements crossing borders, a smart ID would do waaaay more than that if enabled top do so. Can you imagine how it might have been used during
Covid, cos everything that happened then was so fair, even & above board!
[Edited on 3/10/25 by russbost]
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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russbost
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| posted on 3/10/25 at 09:36 AM |
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That's an interesting viewpoint, having employers paranoid about being caught and crippled if they're found. Perhaps that's the element
that the UK should bring in rather than just ID? My wife asked me about a company director who'd had a string of less-than-legitimate companies,
each time he was caught he simply got closed down and opened up another, with probably only a marginal loss of profit. Perhaps if the penalties for
company non-compliance were greater then it wouldn't be so lucrative? Then the existing employment processes would suffice, rather than needing
an extra piece of (electronic) paper.
I believe the penalties are already pretty draconian, up to 5 years jail & unlimited fine - problem is, they never seem to be able to penetrate
these gangs to define who is responsible
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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MikeR
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| posted on 4/10/25 at 08:18 AM |
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Having been very pro, i've seen the government response to the request for a debate and being honest i'm a little more nervous as it feels
the original limited usage case has been expanded more than i'd anticipated.
Let me pose a question - if the ID was a plastic card (think if we'd introduced this 25 years ago along with the driving license). Would you have
the concern? IE is the problem the ID or the way the implementation is proposed with your phone and fear of subsequent tracking?
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jacko
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| posted on 4/10/25 at 12:44 PM |
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What concerns me is who is going to run the new ID and keep the info. ( American ) company ?
555
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/10/25 at 11:40 PM |
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Hi all, good to see some discussion on this important subject.
I develop web applications for a living, mostly in the hospitality industry, and I have zero confidence that our government, and especially the
current government, would be able to implement this project securely, effectively, on budget and on time. They clearly don't have a clue about IT
given their incessant requests to Apple to create backdoors into people's digital lives.
Worse than that, I would question why on earth we need a new "ID" when we already have passports and driving licenses and NI numbers etc. If
those were working correctly then there would be no need for yet another ID.
I recently changed job and my new employer (even though I had been contracting for them for 8 years) went through all sorts of processes including
criminal records checks and various other checks to see if I was eligible to work. This was simply their standard process and I'm sure it's
not mandatory, but it was also clear to me that the government should be enforcing similar employment hiring policies rather than introducing another
ID if they want to eradicate illegal working in the UK.
I'm fairly optimistic that the shower of amateurs who call themselves our government will be voted out before this digital ID will come into
being, and I'll be looking for that policy commitment in order to secure my vote. I just hope they don't destroy our economy in the
meantime...
But if this does somehow come into being then I echo the fears I read about today that we might end up in a cashless society. Basically, Starmer will
find that the digital ID does NOTHING to prevent illegal workers who are paid "cash in hand" and this will lead to dystopian restrictions on
cash and how it is used. I personally don't use cash very much as I tend to pay with my Apple Watch most of the time, but I might change my
approach in the shadow of digital ID and switch to cash for everything.
This is a common theme with this government - everything they do seems to lead to a reaction that is much worse for everyone. Take the examples of
adding VAT to private education which has led to additional strain on state schools and has fundamentally harmed SEND pupils. Then there is the car
crash of inheritance tax and pension reforms which have been a disaster for farmers and pretty much everyone else. How about criminalising social
media posts and peaceful protesters too!
What annoys me most is that the shambles of the conservatives and lib dems means that I'm probably going to have to vote Reform next time around.
Geez...
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russbost
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| posted on 5/10/25 at 04:53 PM |
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"I just hope they don't destroy our economy in the meantime..."
Unfortunately that boat has already left port & is leaking heavily, probably more heavily after the upcoming budget! 
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 5/10/25 at 10:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JC
The problem really is that no one trusts the government - whether it’s this one, or the next, or the one after that.
And that's the problem with everything. No one believes anything anyone says, no one trusts anything so nothing progresses and we have round
robin changes in policy backward and forward in stalemate, each blaming the previous, each fear mongering about the other. There's no honour or
sanity anymore, no one is just doing it to do the right thing, they all want to prove they're the best, rather than doing the best.
But if no one trusts anyone to do anything right, nothing decent happens. Paranoid folk cripple the country, partisan nonsense cripples progress.
Anyone trusting and voting for reform needs their bumps felt.
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v8kid
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| posted on 12/10/25 at 10:40 AM |
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Well I may be suspicious but when i hear complaints regarding verifying identity I wonder what the complainant has to hide.
I have nowt to hide, you can see my name and location on my avatar, and i am always happy to be cooperative with the authorities.
So what are the complainants hiding? might be nowt they might just be serial complainers but the doubt lingers.
You may have guessed im for ID cards, and no im not a Starmer lover or a Nigel boy just an honest citizen.
Cheers!
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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JoelP
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| posted on 12/10/25 at 03:27 PM |
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I'm much the same when people bang on about their communications being private, beyond even MI5's reach. And yet, digital ID cards really
are an expensive solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.
Re Starmer's competence, every recent government has progressively made things worse, and nearly every country around the world, from hard left
to hard right, has exactly the same problems with trying to raise enough funds to cover the services most of us agree need funding. The only
exceptions are those with oil wealth, which we had and squandered on tax cuts. Norway invested theirs and now has the most valuable sovereign wealth
fund in the world.
So my conclusions are that Thatcher was wrong, but I'm not sure if anyone since has actually been right.
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 16/10/25 at 04:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jacko
What concerns me is who is going to run the new ID and keep the info. ( American ) company ?
From what I have read, the currently prefered operator/overseer/vender will be Britcard/Brit Card Ltd owned by Scott Warren Edward Jarman, whilst he
is British (born Wales?) he, or his Company has deep ties with Isreal and their security services. So,while all your data (DOB, Gender, Banking,
Health, Marital Status AND ALL your Electronic Data as well as Phone Location) will be secured (not) on Government Servers, it will also likely be
accessed by Foriegn Governments (friendly and non friendly).
Your details will likely also be accessed to decide whether you are saying (or thinking) the "right things" and then your "access"
to other services (internet, finances, food, travel, voting, etc) could be adjusted until you fully complied. God help you if someone got access to
your phone and said things on it that weren't true or could be misconstrued.
JM2P'sW
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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MikeR
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| posted on 16/10/25 at 05:10 PM |
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Where did you find that information? In referring to banking etc details.
Also with 5 eyes your details are probably already on multiple servers, but not Israel
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