craig1410
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 posted on 31/1/06 at 09:53 PM |
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VW PD Diesel engine - What is normal oil temp?
Hi,
I have been driving a diesel engined Seat Alhambra for the last two years and have recently noticed the oil temperature goes up quite a bit if I am
cruising at anything over 75MPH (on the autobahn you understand..) It is the PD engine, either a 115BHP model as the V5 states or a 130BHP model as it
appears to perform (honestly not sure which). Anyway, the temperature is something like 70/80C when cruising at 50-60MPH and rises to anything up to
110-120C when cruising at 80-90MPH. Should I be worried about this? There is no "red line" on the oil temp gauge and I'm not sure at
what temperature the oil will start to break down.
It's probably always been like this but now I have a fixation on it and my mind may be playing tricks on me...
Cheers,
Craig.
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ned
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| posted on 31/1/06 at 09:56 PM |
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my pd always sits exactly on the middle of the temp gauge once warmed up. its a chipped 115 and has just clocked 124k
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Danozeman
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| posted on 31/1/06 at 10:12 PM |
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My passat tdi sits in the middle too.
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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ed_crouch
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| posted on 1/2/06 at 01:02 AM |
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But this fella is talking about OIL temperature!
Water temp-wise, agreed, my Audi A4 TDI 110 always sat at 90C. It did sometimes drop back when going down a long hill off the gas, but when its not
burning any fuel, the engine cant magic heat out of nowhere! It might have had a stuck thermostat I guess.
Ed.
I-iii-iii-iii-ts ME!
Hurrah.
www.wings-and-wheels.net
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ned
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| posted on 1/2/06 at 09:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ed_crouch
But this fella is talking about OIL temperature!
Criag,
Does it have a seperate oil temp gauge?
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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craig1410
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| posted on 1/2/06 at 09:52 AM |
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Yes it has both water temp (Always 90 deg once warmed up) and a separate oil temp gauge. This may be more of a SEAT thing I suppose as they tend to
boast of a slightly "sportier" image than VW.
My oil temp gauge starts at 60 and has major graduations at 90, 120(middle), 150 and 180. Contrary to what I said earlier it does have a red line at
150 but with red gauges it is difficult to see. I was just concerned that there seems to be such a wide variation in temperature with engine load
(anything from 75/80 to 120 based on my experience so far, even in freezing cold ambient conditions.
Cheers,
Craig.
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Peteff
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| posted on 1/2/06 at 10:59 AM |
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If it's below the red line and you are using the recommended oil, 0-30w fully synthetic isn't it? and following the service intervals I
wouldn't worry about it. You could try changing it more often but it's not cheap stuff is it  . My friend has had a couple of lease cars
with variations of this engine and they do go well, even the lower rated one and it's hard to thrash them but they have tended to use some oil
and need topping up between services.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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craig1410
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| posted on 1/2/06 at 01:16 PM |
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Hi Peteff,
Yes mine uses a small amount of (special PD 505.01) oil between services but I too understand this to be quite normal. It does have a FDSH but is out
of manufacturer's warranty so obviously I am not keen on the engine going BANG as it will be an expensive repair to say the least... I'm
thinking of trading the car in anyway and if the oil temp was something I should be worried about then I'd probably do this sooner rather than
later. I don't think it is a concern though so I'll wait until later in the year I think. The engine certainly sounds and goes as well as
it ever has done.
I quite fancy a Seat Cupra Turbo  (The 225BHP Petrol one)
Cheers,
Craig.
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nick205
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| posted on 1/2/06 at 01:54 PM |
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Craig,
My Leon Cupra PD150 doesn't have an oil temp gauge, but like yours, it does need a top up of oil between 10k services - it does get worked very
hard though
From memory both the 205GTIs I owned showed similar oil temp variations between idling in traffic and motorway cruising. I wouldn't think
it's anything to worry about unless it has suddenly changed behaviour. A call toa Seat dealer may help - I've found them to be pretty
decent people (compared to Peugeot dealers  )
Cheers
Nick
[Edited on 1/2/06 by nick205]
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craig1410
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| posted on 1/2/06 at 11:40 PM |
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Thanks I might mention it to the Seat service manager next time I'm in there. The only problem is that if it was something to worry about then
it might harm my chances of getting a good trade-in deal...
In all honesty I am almost certain that this is normal behaviour and it is just that I hadn't noticed it before. I cruised at 80MPH all the way
to Cornwall and back a couple of summers ago with 5up and a boot full of camping equipment and it ran faultlessly. It really is a very good engine
design I'd have to say.
I see you have the Cupra 150 diesel. As I mentioned above I am thinking of trading in the Alhambra against a Cupra but I was thinking more of the
225BHP petrol turbo. Any advice you'd care to share on Cupra ownership/buying?
Cheers,
Craig.
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nick205
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| posted on 27/2/06 at 01:30 PM |
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In general a great car to run. I didn't buy it, it's a company car, but I still take into account value for money when choosing the car.
You get a lot more for your money with Seat than you do with VW and Audi. I really like the car to look at and personally think it is far better
looking than the equivalent badge models of the time.
It's very good to drive and is equally happy plugging up and down the motorway or bashing through the lanes  IMO the diesel is a better drive
in most situations than the 180bhp petrol Cupra (not driven a 225bhp) as the massive torque makes for effortless driving. It's also more
relaxed at higher speeds and uses about half the fuel of the petrol models.
My advice - go get one and enjoy
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craig1410
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| posted on 27/2/06 at 06:37 PM |
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Thanks Nick, I might just do that although it'll need to wait until the autumn/winter time I think.
Cheers,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/4/06 at 05:00 PM |
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Hi again,
A bit of an update on the saga of engine temperature. Last time I was talking about oil temperature but this time it is in fact both which are causing
concern. See what you make of these symptoms:
Engine WATER temp is rising under sustained load (eg. climbing a long moderately steep incline at 70MPH). I have noticed it going up to around 100C
(normally 90C) but today it got up to just over 110C and I had to back right off and slow down to try to get it under control. I didn't want to
just stop as I was on the motorway and I thought that I'd be doing the engine more good by coasting along at 40-50MPH anyway assuming the temp
didn't keep climbing of course.
Anyway, the temperature didn't show any signs of dropping (and oil temp was also now up to 120C) so I switched on the cabin heaters at full
blast (remember it is an Alhambra with lots of cabin heaters) and the temperature almost immediately started to drop and was back at 90C within a few
minutes. The oil temp stayed high for a while after but evetually started to drop too.
So what do you reckon is wrong here? Thermostat is my guess but I believe that VW engines sometimes have problems with water pumps although I
don't know if this is just petrol engines or if it is diesel as well. Apparently they have a plastic impellor which tends to break. Anyone know
if this affects the diesel?
Finally, anyone know where the thermostat is on a VW PD Diesel engine?
Cheers,
Craig.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 17/4/06 at 05:37 PM |
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The thermostat is likely to be inside of the housing where the bottom hose joins the engine, you may have to move the power steering pump and mounting
aside to get at it. Don't know about the water pump impeller on the Seat but have had some problems with VW petrol engine impellers coming loose
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ed_crouch
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| posted on 17/4/06 at 09:19 PM |
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Correct. It is, and its a TOSSER to get to.
When you refill the coolant system, remember to pull the two hoses off the heater matrix so that the holes are exposed to bleed it off.
Ed.
P.S My experience is based on a Mk1 A4 TDI 110 (AFN engine) which is the same engine as the PD/unitary injector engines, save the different injection
arrangement.
I-iii-iii-iii-ts ME!
Hurrah.
www.wings-and-wheels.net
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/4/06 at 11:07 PM |
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So do you both agree that the thermostat is the likely culprit?
Thanks for your responses,
Craig.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 18/4/06 at 06:56 PM |
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Take it you have checked oil and water levels ? have you also checked that air flow to the radiator is OK no dead leaves etc That could cause similar
problems, if that is OK then replace thermostat first and then possibly water pump
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craig1410
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| posted on 18/4/06 at 07:04 PM |
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Yes oil and water levels are both fine and the radiator seems clear of debris. I was also looking for any collapsed water hoses but they look fine
(those which I can see at least...)
I'll have a word with my local Seat dealership and see if they have any words of wisdom and see if they will give me a quote to fix it before I
consider tackling it myself. I suspect I will then source the bits through my favourite motor factor and have a go myself!!
Cheers,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 29/4/06 at 04:17 PM |
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Update:
Took the thermostat housing off today and it looks like it is in fact the water pump which is faulty... If I stick my fingers into the thermostat hole
I can feel the water pump impellor and it can be turned easily by hand which indicates it has stripped the splines which hold it onto the shaft - a
known problem...
My Seat dealer is closed until Tuesday but lo and behold Halfords have a pump in stock!! My concern is that I don't have a Haynes manual for
this car (not produced) so I'm a bit wary of tackling the water pump replacement, especially since it requires me to remove the timing belt.
Anyone out there ever done a water pump (or timing belt) on a VW PD diesel engine? Do I need special tools or knowledge? Can I reuse the existing
timing belt (only done 8k miles since change)? How hard is the job and how long does it normally take? I've done a Rover 800 16V timing belt
before at the same time as a head gasket replacement so I feel competent enough as long as there are no "gotcha's"
Thanks,
Craig.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 30/4/06 at 11:21 AM |
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I think may be a fairly big job to be honest, a timing belt change on the PD Bora requires the whole front of the car (lights, grill, bumper etc) to
be removed before doing anything else, but might be different on the Alhambra I guess
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craig1410
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| posted on 30/4/06 at 12:13 PM |
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Hi Chris,
I think I have a bit more room in the engine bay on the Alhambra but I think it will still be a fairly lengthy job. I've bought a Golf/Bora
Haynes manual which I am just reading before committing to the task. My greatest fear is making a mistake and damaging the engine but I am fairly
confident that I can do the job and will take great care not to make any mistakes.
The way I look at it, I'm probably capable of doing a better job than the majority of independent garages (apologies to the reputable ones out
there - I don't mean you) since I'm not trying to make a profit and can take more care/time.
I'll let you know how I get on...
Cheers,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 30/4/06 at 01:03 PM |
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Hi again,
I think Halfords have given me the wrong water pump although they have checked their listings and this is the one listed for both the Alhambra and
Golf TDI engines for year 2002. Does anyone know what a VW TDI water pump should look like?
Cheers,
Craig.
 
Rescued attachment p4300740-640480.jpg
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craig1410
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| posted on 30/4/06 at 01:08 PM |
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I think it should be more like this:
 
Rescued attachment DCP_4422.JPG
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 30/4/06 at 01:37 PM |
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No idea what it looks like Im afraid, does it not show it in the Haynes manual?
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craig1410
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| posted on 30/4/06 at 01:43 PM |
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Yes but it's not a great picture and I've learned from experience not to put too much faith in some of the pictures in the Haynes
manual...
However, having done some research I have found that the pump Halfords have given me (HWP623) is in fact from the early 80's era diesel engine
and certainly not suitable for my car. The one I want is like the one in my second picture above. Oh well, looks like I'll just need to phone my
Seat dealer on Tuesday and get a quote. I don't mind paying a small premium for them to do it because they are very good but I'm not going
to get ripped off completely...
Thanks to all for advice received.
Craig.
ps. I'm glad I had a good look at the engine and pump before I really started to take it to bits...
[Edited on 30/4/2006 by craig1410]
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