BenB
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 09:35 AM |
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F1 Pit Stop- What went wrong....
It appears the Ferrari traffic light system is an automatic computerized system using one of these and a special edition of XP.
 
Description
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MikeCapon
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 09:44 AM |
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PMSL................ Again
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MikeCapon
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 09:49 AM |
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Ferrari are already practicing pit stops with the prototype for the F2009
[img][/img]
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 10:17 AM |
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Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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BenB
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 10:43 AM |
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Apparantly Massa and Raikonnen have been learning to fly with the Italian Air Force
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 10:50 AM |
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Does anyone know how the Ferrari system is actually supposed to work? As far as I can tell it's controlled by the bloke with the fuel hose, but
does that mean he's also supposed to be looking out for traffic (and everyone else being clear) whilst still doing what appears to be a tricky
job in no time? Or is there a 'spotter' doing that and pressing another button? In which case, why not just give the spotter, ooh
let's say a lollipop?
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blakep82
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 10:56 AM |
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as far as i understand. the wheel guys have a button easch, they press when they're done, the fuel guy has a button to press (or maybe release)
when he's done (which, when he pulls on the hose and it doesn't come away, i assume he can easily lose contact with the button, and there
is someone who has an over ride button, which i assume its ultimately up to them to check for cars coming.
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 11:20 AM |
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It looks like scratching around for an extra split second in the pits is getting too dangerous.
Maybe the FIA should ban the electronic systems and insist that everyone reverts to the man with a lollipop, who clears the car when all the wheelmen
and fuel man lift a hand to say they're clear.
Or maybe all the racing should be done on the track, rather than in the pit lane...
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 11:25 AM |
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As i understand it, its like Blake says. Each of the 4 wheel men and the refueler have a button that needs to be pressed to change the traffic lights
to green. I guess due to the standardised refueling rigs, they cant modify it to only give a green light upon release.
No idea what they do about safe release though - i guess there must be a 6th button for that controlled by someone else. Oh hang on, they clearly dont
have a 6th button do they - proved that a couple of times now!!
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 11:34 AM |
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My line of thinking is along thr lines of above. I also think that Massa has perhaps become "Italianised" Let me explain.
To the average Italian driver at traffic lights
Red means "You could go if you think you'll get away with it"
Amber means " A quick glance and off you go"
Greens means " I'm in the right and don't need to check at all so go go go"
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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iank
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 11:44 AM |
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I'd suspect though don't know for certain that they are using a switch in the fuel filler to detect when it's been removed rather
than having a button to press - simply because he needs both hands to pull it out.
Now my guess, having spoken to real f1 engineers in the past and heard the ways their brains work, that they may have grabbed an extra couple of dozen
milliseconds by going green as it's 'almost' out rather than when it's fully removed.
That works fine if it doesn't jam at the very end of the pull as the drivers reaction time etc will be greater than the time to finish the
removal and get out of the way.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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chris_smith
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 11:55 AM |
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What annoys me is that after the pit chaos (which endagered other drivers and crews) massa has a drive through penalty, kubica and others get a stop
go penalty just for needing to pit due to running out of fuel while lane is closed so either try and get round till its open and risk running out like
barrichello or take a penalty, again ferrari getting away with it while others suffer
chris
The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows."
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 12:04 PM |
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Cant really blame Ferrari for the dumb rules the FIA came up with though regarding penalties saying they only get a drivethrough.
An unsafe release though to me should incur the highest penalty possible as its so dangerous. If that car would have hit Massa yesterday it could have
taken out half of the Williams pit crew that were right next to the incident.
Have a look at this. Sorry its sideways (NTDWM)
linky seeing as F1 has had most vids removed already
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loggyboy
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 12:23 PM |
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I think its high time they realised that refuleing is one of the main reasons why the sport is less exciting. Adding 'stategy' to what
essentially should be a long 'sprint' race is never going to help a sport that is struggling to retain excitment from race to race as it
is.
1 pit stop for tyres, making the pit crew part of the team in respect of it being down to the them to squeeze the tyre changes in under 4.5 secs like
back in the early 90s. No 1/2/3 stop stategy for timing stops for when there is a break in traffic. No running race fuel for qually for top 10
qualifier, so no games to be played, if you qualify 1st, you WERE the fastest driver and car combo that day.
[Edited on 29/9/08 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 12:36 PM |
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Better video:
linky
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 12:54 PM |
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I think what you are all failing to realise is that Massa's release was in no way dangerous!.....
It was perfectly obvious to anyone in the pit lane that there was a RED car in the pits and therefore it is their duty to make allowances and pull
over as neccessary so as not impede the exit of the Car of a Superior Colour......
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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MautoK
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 01:02 PM |
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'This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Formula One Management'
He's whittling on a piece of wood. I got a feeling that when he stops whittling, something's gonna happen. (OUATITW/Cheyenne)
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BenB
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 01:13 PM |
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Strange that they're cutting down on youtube footage when you can watch the whole thing on ITV catchup!!!!! LOL....
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andyps
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 01:58 PM |
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I don't understand the comment from Stefano Domenicali on Autosport.com:
quote:
originally reported in Autosport
Domenicali said, however, that the problem could also have happened with the lollipop.
"When you see a green light to go, that means that you have to go. It doesn't matter. The green was on because he had to go. If we
didn't have the traffic light, we would have had the lollipop up. In that respect it didn't change the specific scenario that we have
today."
This seems to imply that they were ready to release him even with the fuel line in place. Why? Or have I missed something?
In terms of the system, I think there is someone on the pit wall who has a button which prevents the green light coming on if there is a car coming
making release unsafe. He needs to go to specsavers.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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andyps
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 01:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Strange that they're cutting down on youtube footage when you can watch the whole thing on ITV catchup!!!!! LOL....
But ITV pay Bernie for that, YouTube don't.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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iank
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 02:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andyps
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Strange that they're cutting down on youtube footage when you can watch the whole thing on ITV catchup!!!!! LOL....
But ITV pay Bernie for that, YouTube don't.
And you can't add 'Only a red car would have got away with a drive through for that!!!' comments to the ITV site.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 02:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andyps
In terms of the system, I think there is someone on the pit wall who has a button which prevents the green light coming on if there is a car coming
making release unsafe. He needs to go to specsavers.
.........or get a job as a Premiership referee!!! He'd fit right in there!!! 
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blakep82
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 02:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andyps
In terms of the system, I think there is someone on the pit wall who has a button which prevents the green light coming on if there is a car coming
making release unsafe. He needs to go to specsavers.
ha ha ha! i'd love to see that feature in the next specsavers ad
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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loggyboy
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 03:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andyps
I don't understand the comment from Stefano Domenicali on Autosport.com:
quote:
originally reported in Autosport
Domenicali said, however, that the problem could also have happened with the lollipop.
"When you see a green light to go, that means that you have to go. It doesn't matter. The green was on because he had to go. If we
didn't have the traffic light, we would have had the lollipop up. In that respect it didn't change the specific scenario that we have
today."
This seems to imply that they were ready to release him even with the fuel line in place. Why? Or have I missed something?
Agreed, a lollypop man can see when the hose is off AND when the cars are coming. At that stage in the stop he is the most important man.
Mistral Motorsport
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 29/9/08 at 05:32 PM |
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I agree that the penalty was far too light. In my view it was at least a double infraction.
1 Being released from the pit into on coming traffic (apparently using the Ferrari only second lane in the pits).
2 Driving off whilst trailing still attached fueling equipment.
Either of the above puts other pit personnel into danger, whilst both create extreme danger and therefore warrant a much higher penalty.
Oh sorry I forgot, the F(errarri) I(nternational) A(ssistance) card was played yet again.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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