I have, quite frankly, had enough of the GTS now 
I cannot fix this erratic rpm issue, all the suggestions have been tried and many more to boot. As far as I can see there is nothing wrong with any of
the ignition or fuelling system.
All of this leaves me with a car which is undriveable at motorway speeds with Stoneleigh less than 3 weeks away.
So fed up now 
Calm down have a cup of tea and start again 
3 weeks? Plenty of time to get that Duratec in then! 
Mike
When its not under load the engine kind of hunts, which suggests to me that the ignition timing is fluctuating. Under load you just see sharp rpm
spikes and misfires.
I am seriously considering fitting the edis, but if I screw it up there's no going back and certainly no time to fix it before stoneleigh.
If a std dizzy fixes it then I can live with the performance hit until the duratec is installed.
David
Could you borrow enough bits off other MS pinto engined people to keep swopping bits out to isolate the problem further.
Have you posted it up on the MS forum as well? To get the opinions of the likes of Bill Shurvington(sp?) etc. on it?
Wish I knew enough MS to help you!
Good luck,
James
Hi. Just remind me again what your running? Is it Pinto,MS,Edis,throttle bodies?
or Mega jolt and Carbs
piddy : he is running tb's and MS to control the fueling with electronic dizzy for ignition
Hi Martin, Running pinto with megasquirt doing fuel onlyon gsxr 750 TBs and H&H ignition solutions electronic dizzy which was brand new when I
built the engine.
Have posted the problem on the MS forums here, have had a few suggestions, but only one guy seems to be bothered:
http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30851
Got my post removed from the std MS forums as I have an extra ecu, not that I am using that bit of it!
Don't worry, you're not alone.
My MK has been on the road since the 3rd of April, 12 days, and I've done 12 miles in it so far. At the moment the engine and box are coming out
of the car so I can put another gearbox in.
Having holed the gearbox sump pan on my first drive, then fixed that, on the second try it wouldn't change out of first gear
Apart from that, it's brilliant, and worth the grief!
John.
The most annoying thing is I had a similar issue on carbs which turned out to be a loose rotor arm, but I dont know if that was hiding this problem or
not. Wish I had the carbs here now to find out!
Anyone got a pair of DCOE's set up for a pinto I could borrow? LOL
David
would i be right in assuming youve checked for vac leaks
I don't think I can help. I do have a pinto Dizzy you can borrow if it would help. Have you tired Different plugs and plug leads? Have you spoke
to Phil at Extra EFI
www.extraefi.co.uk
I would expect, if I had a minor air leak for the engine to hunt at idle and for my AFR to be all over the place. I will investigate though. I dont
understand how it could cause rpm spikes at only certain RPM.
I havent spoken to Phil at extra efi as the ecu is one of Bill Shurvingtons IIRC. I'll mail him and see if he has any suggestions though.
I Spoke to Phil when I had problems and my unit was from the US. He was really helpful and even offered to take a look at the MS for me. He came to one of our meetings as well.
bad news chap was it like this when you took me out? i didnt notice anything if it was! hope you get it sorted soon
Alan
quote:
Originally posted by hellbent345
bad news chap
Alan
quote:
Originally posted by piddy
I Spoke to Phil when I had problems and my unit was from the US. He was really helpful and even offered to take a look at the MS for me. He came to one of our meetings as well.
Could you convert to EDIS? the big advantage is that this used OEM equipment for the "difficult" part (i.e. measuring engine speed and
determining TDC correctly on a running engine). For the Duratec you also cannot use a distributor engine speed input, you'll need to go 60-2,
probably using wheel decoding (that'll be lots of fun too!)
I'm using MSExtra (fuel and spark) on a pinto myself, triggered by an injection dizzy with external coil amplifier (bosch type). After LOTS of
fiddling i'm still not impressed with the stability of the RPM signal and the ignition advance. I'd very much prefer an EDIS setup, but have
got other things to do at the moment....
Does it hunt when it's on the driveway, or only under load/driving? Would it be possible to get a 'scope on it to double check the coil?
Also, is there anyway the dizzy drive can slip on a Pinto?
I can convert to edis (and plan to use edis on the duratec too and already have an edis sitting next to me on my desk) but if that doesnt solve the
problem then I am royally screwed as I wont have time to try anything else before stoneleigh.
The other issue is my MS ecu will need modifiying to work with EDIS and no-one can tell me what I need to change. The instructions on the MS Extra
wesbite dont tell you what the starting point is for the mods, and it seems no one does! My ecu currently has twin coil drivers built in.
quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
Does it hunt when it's on the driveway, or only under load/driving? Would it be possible to get a 'scope on it to double check the coil?
Also, is there anyway the dizzy drive can slip on a Pinto?
You say on the MS forum topic that the dash shows the spike, is this a tacho seperated from the MS.
Sounds like it's nothing at all to do with the MS, more the coil.
What about trying a timing light, see if it's giving dodgey spark.
You could always run with a toothed wheel if needs be.
Are you sure the dizzy is wired up correctly? Maybe be talk to H & H but just say you've got RPM spikes on the tacho, but don't metion
the MS and see what they say.
Is there any reason you're not using spark from MS? Would be much better in the long run.
I know how you feel though, it's so frustrating that there's a problem with electroics that you can't alter or fix, and that cost a
fair few pennies. It's a mega good feeling whne you finally win, good luck.
The dash shows the spikes too, which is connected direct to the coil and not driven by the MS.
I am no longer convinced its an MS issue either and more a problem with the distributor in some way.
Could a faulty coil cause the same problem? That was also brand new and is a cossie type dry coil rather than a std wet type
Flak - try running it with the lights off - guessing might be ht lead break down??, or just get a new set to rule out. Mates 911 had something similar
and it lit up like a fireworks display in the dark with the lid open.
[Edited on 15/4/09 by gregs]
I trust you've seen this: linky
I thought that is all you need to know. As far as I can see, the hardware changes should be very limited. What hardware are you running?
The tach spikes you are getting are normally closely related to the distributor RPM input option. Are you still running fuel only or fuel and spark?
You'll get it sorted out, don't worry!
quote:
Originally posted by gregs
Flak - try running it with the lights off - guessing might be ht lead break down??, or just get a new set to rule out. Mate 911 had something similar and it lit up like a fireworks display in the dark with the lid open.
Right, i see you are running fuel only. I trust you've got the coil negative side connected to the MS. Is there some other possible pick-up point
on the HH dizzy tat might be suitable and less noisy?
If you have a schematic of the dizzy, please post it, so we can have a look!
quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan
I trust you've seen this: linky
I thought that is all you need to know. As far as I can see, the hardware changes should be very limited. What hardware are you running?
The tach spikes you are getting are normally closely related to the distributor RPM input option. Are you still running fuel only or fuel and spark?
You'll get it sorted out, don't worry!
quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan
Right, i see you are running fuel only. I trust you've got the coil negative side connected to the MS. Is there some other possible pick-up point on the HH dizzy tat might be suitable and less noisy?
If you have a schematic of the dizzy, please post it, so we can have a look!
Has it got a seperate electronics box, or is everything contained in the dizzy itself?
I expect you are getting false triggers on coil ringing, but cannot be sure. You'll need a scope (and a knowledgeable operator) to know for sure.
David,
Is the shaft a good fit in the dizzy, or does it rattle around?
I'm wondering whether if it's flapping around at speed and messing up the timing.
Its a new dizzy and is all tight. I had it out last week to check. Its one of the first things I did after starting to think it wasnt the MS causing the problem.
David , if your ecu has 2 coil drivers do you need to run an Edis unit? can you just wire up and fit a coil pack off something like a Mondeo or Focus? Your lucky , my car developed problems on the Tuesday before Stoneleigh a couple of years ago , found the cause about 10.30pm on the Friday. The new TPS I had fitted was faulty , had to use another car to go.
Its contact bounce.
The points at a certain speed bounce so it makes more than one on/off transition. So instead of one pulse many occur.
It then seems the engine is running faster than it is. A low pass filter using a resistor/ capacitor combo may filter this bounce. another possibliity
it using a hall effect sensor to drive the rpm signals.
Darren
quote:
Originally posted by turbodisplay
Its contact bounce.
The points at a certain speed bounce so it makes more than one on/off transition. So instead of one pulse many occur.
It then seems the engine is running faster than it is. A low pass filter using a resistor/ capacitor combo may filter this bounce. another possibliity it using a hall effect sensor to drive the rpm signals.
Darren
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
David , if your ecu has 2 coil drivers do you need to run an Edis unit? can you just wire up and fit a coil pack off something like a Mondeo or Focus? Your lucky , my car developed problems on the Tuesday before Stoneleigh a couple of years ago , found the cause about 10.30pm on the Friday. The new TPS I had fitted was faulty , had to use another car to go.
david
I've got a couple of spare dizzy's you could borrow to see if this helps if you haven't already tried that!
Richard.
quote:
Originally posted by melly-g
david
I've got a couple of spare dizzy's you could borrow to see if this helps if you haven't already tried that!
Richard.
Is the coil matched to the H&H dizzy? There are different coils for electronic ignition and points - maybe ask H&H if the one you are using is
compatible?
good luck with it mate 
Coil and dizzy were both supplied by H&H so I assume they match
I know I'll fix it. And I think the way forward is to try a std dizzy, knowing that it will cause issues of its own by not allowing enough idle
advance and getting points bounce at high rpm just to eliminate that side of the problem.
If that cures it then speak to H&H about fixing my rather expensive dizzy!
In the mean time I will have a play with edis/coil drivers and go spark as well with the MS.
David
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
David , if your ecu has 2 coil drivers do you need to run an Edis unit? can you just wire up and fit a coil pack off something like a Mondeo or Focus? Your lucky , my car developed problems on the Tuesday before Stoneleigh a couple of years ago , found the cause about 10.30pm on the Friday. The new TPS I had fitted was faulty , had to use another car to go.
My concern is over their reliability. I might give it a go and see if I can make it work with the coil drivers which are built in. The dwell settings cause me some concern too as I havent a clue!
I will have to pull my ECU out and figure out what internal stuff needs doing to use the coil drivers. I think I just need to put the input circuit back to how it should be then I will be sorted!
David
I can tell you the changes I made for EDIS, but I built from scratch using MS1 v3, so not sure it would be much help.
Here they are (seems I saved the website)
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#edis
Not sure if you have seen that before, but it worked for me
Its part of the msextra manual
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Coil and dizzy were both supplied by H&H so I assume they match
I have not read all the posts but could it be a duf spark plug breaking down over 3500rpm
quote:
Originally posted by jacko
I have not read all the posts but could it be a duf spark plug breaking down over 3500rpm
One thing I've learned over the years is that when difficult to rtrace problems arise you must check EVERYTHING, and take nothing for granted.
Years ago I had a car that would stop after it had been running for a while. Classic overheating issue, probably something in the ignition circuitry
breaking down when it was hot.
Turned out in the end to be a bit of crud in the float chamber, every now and then it would block the fuelway into the carburettor. Then, when the car
had been stopped for a while it would come out again.
Check everything
John
OK, just changed the plugs and no difference.
So the list of tried things is now:
New dizzy cap and rotor arm
New plug leads
2 new sets of plugs
Redundant earthing of distributor
Rewiring dizzy trigger and power cables independantly and together
Tweaked internals of megasquirt as suggested by several people
Checked all earths and power feeds to all ignition system
All of which is to no avail.
Trying a points dizzy tomorrow. If that doesnt fix it the only ignition system part which wont have been changed is the coil. (Worth trying?).
David
PS anyone need a set of pinto plugs? Only run for 5 mins? Lol
[Edited on 16/4/09 by flak monkey]
If you can get to west yorks, i've just bought an mk with a 2.1 pinto on a single 48 dellorto carb, you can try the carb or any other bits that might help.
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
PS anyone need a set of pinto plugs? Only run for 5 mins? Lol
Tried a different dizy (std points) today, also had to change coil as dizzy didnt seem to drive the other coil.
Interestingly problem is now worse, rpm skips about a bit at idle too (maybe up to +500rpm). Refitted H&H dizzy and its the same. Not yet changed
coils back though.
The only thing I didnt do was reconnect the suppressor capacitor to the coil, so thats top of the list tomorrow/sunday.
So I dont think there is anything wrong with my dizzy or original coil. So time to start looking elsewhere again.
Kind of working on both trying to get the parts to change to MS spark and fixing the issue I have now. I just want to understand what the problem
is!
David
I've had a word with some peeps, and the consensus seems to be interfearence between the coil and the MS/Tacho.
quote:
Originally posted by brianthemagical
I've had a word with some peeps, and the consensus seems to be interfearence between the coil and the MS/Tacho.
You mention reconnecting the supressor, did you have any kind of surpressor with the electronic dizzy? What kind of wiring are you using? Does it pass by any thing that might be high current, maybe the HT leads. I know it sounds patronising, but just incase like.
It did have a supressor yes, i just hadn't reconnected it the last time I tried it.
Just had the car out for a spin and the RPM signal looks worse than ever on the dash, however its now rock steady in the MS so the car drives OK at
least.
All thats changed is I have changed the coil to a bog std one from a capri and tweaked the circuit again in the MS unit. Everything else is exactly as
it was when I had the problem.
I am tempted now to leave it well alone until after stoneleigh!
David
[Edited on 19/4/09 by flak monkey]
Try a resistor in the MS trigger line (from the coil -ve) - i've heard it can help with "over-sensitive" triggering.