I know lots have sid about the k series, but I have just an mgf will a 'potental' hgf.

The lady I bought it off took it as a trade in on a another car she sold, was runing fine, then noticed a big pool of water underneath.
(so the story goes)

Anyway, my intention is to fit a rover 2.0 turbo in the back, so the engine is not realy needed.

BUT THE QUESTION IS !!!!!!!!
how do i find out what the problem is?
is it worth repairing if its hgf.
What are they worth if they are repaired (is it financially worth me repairing it)

FITTING THE T16
what are going to be my main problems?
The car is being done for the PPC 999 challenge, the send limit is £999.

Car has cost me £400 to buy.

Thermostat mods for the T16?, the rad will be a long way from the engine!

Turbo cooling. Was thinking of ditching anything in the car thats not really needed, and modifications to almost anything should not be a problem, as long I can do it with a recipricating saw and a large hammer.

Any tips, advice, suggestions, would be greatfully received.

OH, and if anyone has a T16, with LSD (don't know the differences between the type A and type B tbh) and they are cheap, let me know.

As I said before, I need the total to be less than £999

First thing worth checking is all the coolant hoses and clips etc.

I had the issue a few times on my S1 elise - the S2 seems to be better. The coolant level dropped quite quickly and it was traced back to a loose hose clip and fluid was escaping when running hot.

Leaking water is a cause of HGF, not necessarily a symptom...

If you start the engine and get a stream of bubbles in the header tank, then HGF is pretty much confirmed - also check for steam cleaned plug(s).

As for fitting the T16...its a fair bit bigger and heavier than a "K". Don't forget the MGF was (sort of) built from a Metro.. At least you could use on of those "air intakes" on the side and fill it with an intercooler!

Give Britishtrident a u2u, He is the resident rover guru Ive asked him a few bits about my mates K series and he is always spot on.

A pool of water is not really a hgf sympton, more likely a cause! Check all the hoses and rad for leaks. Top the header up and take it for a spin, keep your eye on the temp gauge. When yo get home check for leaks from pipes etc while sytem is pressurised and hot. Also see if the pressure release cap has been venting, hgf can cause excess pressure in the system. Check header tank and oil cap for white gunk, this shows if water and oil are mixing, although be aware moisture from condensation can cause a small amount of white sludge on oil cap (I fell for this on my elise).

I sold my my 43k miles, fsh k series and gearbox for £300 on ebay. If its a decent engine there is a decent market for these. Have you any idea if it has had the updated head gasket fitted?

as said a puddle underneath doesnt mean hg failure. Theres alsorts of places the water can leak out. has it got sludge in the cam cover?

Not goy the car home yet.

Went to see it yesturday, was not concerned with the engine condition tbh.

The water in the header tank was all nice and clean. But it had just been topped up.

Engine looked clean enough, but did not look in the oil filler or rad, or dip stick.

The car was up for £500, i offered 4, this was rejected, so I drove away.

2 mins later got a phone call to say they would accept, so left a deposit, and will pick up Sunday.

Can not go too far wrong for £400 I THINK

Coozer has a Rover Turbo engine. Not sure if it's right for you, but....

http://locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=117753

Mike

Should go well with a T-16 in it

As said, though, the T-16 is a very different beast to the K series. The K series was an 'all new' all alloy engine. The T, however, is much bigger and taller with an iron block and alloy head. It has a long heritage going all the way back to the b-series.

If you can get it and it's gear box to fit, though, then it should just be a case of fabricating the mounts and getting some drive shafts made up.

What ECU do you plan to use?

Can't go wrong for £400! I'd love Cheap 2 seater convertable road car!

First of all it depends if the pool is water or coolant ?

If the pool is water it is from the air conditioning --- 100% normal to find quite a large ammount of water under the car in current weather conditions.

If the pool is coolant it is most likely from the front to rear coolant pipes with are aluminium alloy and corrode due to road salt ----- easy to change to stanless steel
as sold by Rimmer Brothers.
Changing to the LandRover PRRT thermostat at the same time is a good idea.

What has to be looked for is any other coolant leak -- ie inlet manifold gasket or water pump.

After filling and bleeding the cooling system with the correct type of colant it should be pressure tested ---- very easy to make a home made tester.

[Edited on 25/7/09 by britishtrident]

Although the MGF and MGTF use the same gearbox as the Rover 820 the M16 or T16 engines are just too big and heavy.

However the Torsen diff from an 820 Turbo or 620Ti or 220 turbo can be fitted in to the existing box ----- don't be tempted to just fit the turbo box complete as the final drive bearings and the part of the casing that supports the bearings are likely to be knackered due to the loads from the turbo engine.


The K16 engine is an absolute gem of an engine --- very easy to work on (although less user friendly in VVC form) very easy to get more power from.

you get everywhere jaffa !!! oo er .

if it is the headgasket , jsut fit a decompression plate and wang it back together , bolt turbo on to existing manifold (use hammer for clearance) , and squirt it .

of course the decrompression plate is not an ideal answer , but it is reversible , if for any chance you need to keep it running to do teh challenge unlike fitting a t16 which will need all teh fabrication and messing with wiring etc .

Try this website:- http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/default.htm which is brilliant for any problems with an mgf and its k series engines (which are good engines). There are good threads re cooling problems and if its happened, fitting new head gaskets etc.

Just a slight word of caution....

On removing the subframe from my girlfriend's MGF I sheared every single bolt holding the subframe onto the car itself.

What should have been really straightforward was a total pain and it was only ok cos we were stripping it!

Before you buy anything for that car get it in the air and try undoing those bolts - I wasnt looking but the captive nuts seem to be in a box section and I would have thought its gonna be tricky to repalce them.

Obviously not beyond what you can attempt but in light of BT's advice if its gonna be a pain to get the engine out and tuning the k is gonna yield good power Id be tempted to leave it in there...

Geoff

So!!!!

repair and turbo ?
its a thought

The Rover 75 came with a turbo charged version of the K series. It's a light pressure turbo to give around 150 bhp but might be a possible starting point for a manifold etc.

Quickest way to gain power on a non VVC K series is to fit a VVC inlet manifold adds quite a few more hp, stage after that is cams, then a 52mm VVC throttle body only worth a couple hp followed by big valve head -- special valves are available that allow the standard valve seats to be retained.

or you could have a word with ken at QED , they were developing some K series bits when i did some development with air horns on an XE .

i think we could get you to 200 bhp on the std internals - it really needs someone with more experience inside the engine to tell you that .

Anything i do need to be cheap. The car was bough for the PPC £999 challenge (if they ever run another one)

Thats why, I was thinking t16, suppose i'll just see what comes up first.

Anyway, picked up the car, and its now on the drive at home.

Battery was dead as, so winched her on the trailer.

It was persistantly raining when we picked her up, (bonous as you could not see all the scratches), looked in the header and this was just plain old water. Dip stick showed, nice clean fresh looking oil.

Could not get the oil filler cap off from the boot with my weekling hands.

Bit of an update.

The pool of water was definately coolant.

The lady who sold the car said that she had to fill the coolant bottle up.

I have just managed to get out and lok at the car for the first time today, in between sessions of thunder and heavy rain.

No obvious sign of HGF yet

Coolant bottle is squeeeeeky clean, with lots of clear fresh water, due to it just being filled up.

Dip stick, nice clean fresh looking oil.

Engine oil cap, nice and clean.

Next step, bleed the system.

Went to the rad and undid the 13mm plastic bolt an the rad, but nowt came out.
Oh, I thought, better open the head bottle cap.

When I opened it, I could hear running water, so closed it again.

Rad now had water all the way to the top.

Closed rad bolt, and when to open the header bottle cap again.

SHOCK OF SHOCK, i could still hear running water.

But this time it was coming from the left hand side of the engine, above the gearbox.

And it was RUNNING out enough to make a noise, not dribbling.

As its started to lash downm again, I have not had a chance to find out where its actually come from. And its a bloody difficult place ti get to.

Every time i try takinmg the hood down to get to the top of the engine, it lashes down again.

Does this mean that the HG is fine, or could it stil be bugggggered?

Is it coming from the front (inlet manifold) side of the engine? The inlet manifold gasket has to seal a coolant passage and is a renown leak point which has caused many head gaskets to fail due to coolant loss. The manifold gasket is a cheap and reasonably easy fix.

A really badly knackered head gasket can allow coolant to leak out of the head/block joint.

The thermostat is located on the block below the inlet manifold, it's possible you have a leak here somewhere.

It could be that its just been caught in time - its that sort of water leak that leads to HGF (due to their not being a lot in the system - although there is more on an MGF...).

I'd say give it a compression test - it it looks good, then find the leak, fix the leak and give it a go...but remember to get some decent antifreeze in there!

Isn't that engine known for head gasket failures?

If you can see it from below or through the arches you will need to examine through the inspection plate from the inside of the car ---- it sounds to me Coolant pipe or hose --- or if you are really unlucky frost damage .

Get yourself a copy of the MG-Rover Rave CD Manual --- a copy or two just might be found on eBay

Don't forget the bleeder near the bulkhead behind the spare wheel when you do get around to bleeding it again

file mgtf.jpg in my archive might help

Thanks for the replie.
Managedto get to have a looking in between the rain spells today.

Could see anything, oil looked very clean

dip stick very clean
water very clean

Went the bleen the system from radiator end, but nothing came out until i removed header cap.

Replace cap, and tighened the radiator bolt.

Removed cap again, and could hear water trickling.

Guess what.



do not know if the metal pipe has a crack or if it is rusted through, but if i press my finger against it, it stops



think the pipe is this one

That's the pipe that connects to the back of the thermostat housing. If you have to take that all off it would be worth removing out the original thermostat and plumbing in the external Rover PRT thermostat which improves things significantly on the mid engined K series cars.

I don't plan on keeping the engine, just proving it the pipework problen, not the engine, then selling the engine.

Speaking of modding the cooling system, what are your thoughts on this mod.

http://www.mgfmavhh.ukf.net/

If the engine is OK why change it "work with wot u got" putting anything else in would be silly.

Put the PRRT thermostat in you are going to have to change all the plumbing anyway.

Can you use the coolant pipes from the TF?
Do they have the new position pressure thermostat?

The new thermostat was introduced in mid 2003 --- not all MGTF have it.

It is actually a Landrover part used on the TD5 powered Defender and Discoverty and Freelander 1.8 ---- PEM100990 or PEL100990 which can be found for about 14 pounds.

PEM100990 has grey body and lower operating temperature than PEL100990 which has cream coloured body.

XPart agents will sell you a full fitting kit which is relative expensive however if you want to adapt the existing hoses it can be fitted using a little ingenuity using instruction off the web. If doing this it import too disable the original thermostat by removing the valve plate --- don't remove completly.

There seems to be a few variation on a theme when i look on the net.

From fitting the complete set up from the ft, to fitting a by pass thermastat housing near the radiator, with eaither a drilled original stas or cut out original stat.

I like the look of the one at the front near the rad.

From your experience, what the cheapest, easiest, and most effective?

also, should i fit a coolant level indicator thingy, and how.

sorry for all the questions

The only cars I have converted were FWD Rovers I can't really say which is easyiest.
The cheapiest is modifying the original type thermostat --- Drilling the original type thermostat works to a degree and makes the system easier to bleed much less likely to air lock but dosen't control the temperature so well. Also the PRRT thermostat allows much better circulation during initial warm up.

The tank level switch mod is a good idea but not essential -- the system shouldn't lose water anyway. best way to ensure no water loss is to do a pressure tes when cold.
It is very easy to make a pressure tester up from a pump action garden sprayer (type with a pressure gauge is best) and a plastic tee piece from Halfords, you also need a short bit of hose the same size as the small bore hose that goes to te header tank. Just fill the sprayer with premixed coolant, Tee into hose to the header tank and you can then pressure fill and bleed the system and do pressure test.

[Edited on 1/8/09 by britishtrident]

Sounds like a plan.

Should have enoug bit of pipes and tees to do that in the shed, along with a coulpe of garden sprayers.

I will have a go at fitting the presure stat aswell.


cheers