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Supercharging plus Turbocharging?
pewe - 27/10/09 at 11:48 AM

Pipe dream time.
The Group B Lancia S4 rally cars used both.
Anyone any experience of both on a carb set-up?
What sort of power boost could be expected by adding a turbo to the already supercharged engine?
How difficult would it be to set up?
I know the current Golf GT uses both but don't think they are particularly powerful.
Thoughts?
Cheers, Pewe

[Edited on 27/10/09 by pewe]

speedyxjs - 27/10/09 at 11:51 AM

Most group B rally cars were hypercharged. They had rediculous amounts of power from 1.6/1.8/2.0 engines (up to 800hp iirc)

flak monkey - 27/10/09 at 11:55 AM

Basically it lets you have the benefits of both systems, so the early all in boost of a turbo, but as the supercharger is already partly working you have a bit less lag than you would with just a huuuge turbo.

You can also have the benefit of being able to run really silly boost levels (40psi+) without a masive turbo and therefore huge lag, if the engine will take it.

The main problem with the hypercharged cars was fire IIRC and reliability. But then at over 400bhp/litre what more can you expect? lol

David

alistairolsen - 27/10/09 at 11:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by pewe
Pipe dream time.
The Group B Lancia S4 rally cars used both.
Anyone any experience of both on a carb set-up?
What sort of power boost could be expected by adding a turbo to the already supercharged engine?
How difficult would it be to set up?
I know the current Golf GT uses both but don't think they are particularly powerful.
Thoughts?
Cheers, Pewe

[Edited on 27/10/09 by pewe]


personally I wouldnt use carbs, suck through is asking for a big bang and blow through relies on good new carbs with good seals and still isnt great. This wont be a cheap project so at east budget for efi.

depends which way you go. The golf uses both to achieve good power and economy but pretty much uses one at the time. If you size the chargers correctly you can use the turbo to prefreed the charger with denser air and if you use a positive displacement charger then compress it again.

It is extremely difficult to set up correctly.

Youre correct, see above.

Thoughts? Why bother? its a locost, you dont need to make your power from a given capacity for racing, so if you need more power, fit a bigger engine. IMO an LS2 v8 with a pair of small turbo will give a much better, cheaper engine thats goo for 8-900bhp.

tegwin - 27/10/09 at 11:58 AM

Why not just fit a small gas turbine (something like an APU) and use that to supply high pressure air to the engine:p Like that mental hillclimb car.. sounds awsome and goes like something rapid!

rj - 27/10/09 at 12:50 PM

Remember the Lancia Delta S4 was built in the 80's, I think the turbo/ supercharger route was a good solution then, but now would be done with just a turbo and a powerfull ECU, a properly mapped turbo engine dosnt have a lot of turbo lag, and anti lag can be added to improve things further, anti lag wasnt around in the 80's. A friend had an Impreza rally car, got a GEMS ECU properly mapped, it was incredible, power , torque, and little lag, and it had the early turbo that gave little power below 4000rpm (in std trim)
I saw a Delta S4 at Olivers Mount, Scarborough in 85 or 86 fecking awesome !

prawnabie - 27/10/09 at 06:33 PM

My moms golf has both and its always at the dealers lol!

pewe - 27/10/09 at 08:26 PM

Thought it wouldn't be easy but taking into account your inputs I've gone off the idea.
It was only a pipe-dream really.
Maybe I'll just think about a turbo engine for my next project.
Thanks guys, Pewe
PS have suggested it to the ed. of a well known mag. should be interesting to see what he thinks.