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Intercooler
Sierra - 5/1/13 at 11:39 PM

Hi guys I'm looking to add a inter cooler to my car to keep temps down and possibly look into upping the psi on the supercharger. Thing is this is my first supercharged car and can figure out how to/where to connect from and to.
Can anyone tell from these pictures

coyoteboy - 5/1/13 at 11:58 PM

Can't quite make it out but it looks like you might struggle - looks like the supercharger output heads right into the plenum/manifold, but I'm not familiar with that setup.

Sierra - 6/1/13 at 12:01 AM

Yeah it's very tight so not sure if its possible without rebuilding a lot of the setup. Is there another alternative to keep the temps low to up the power? Oil cooler or charge cooler maybe

RK - 6/1/13 at 12:02 AM

How the piping and intercoolers get under the nosecone is one of life's great mysteries, something like the caramel in the Caramilk bar. Check DR7INDY for his setup. Many seem to have them custom made, and some mount the intercooler at the rear of the engine compartment, but I don't see this as being all that effective, due to heat in that area. Mine is going to be sticking out from the nosecone, and I have no way of getting around this ATM. I am also interested in ideas.

My archive has some pics of my own setup, but this is now different, as that nose cone has been (ahem...) destroyed....

ashg - 6/1/13 at 12:16 AM

here is a better solution.... how about moving your air intake away from behind the radiator where all the hot air is.

MikeRJ - 6/1/13 at 12:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ashg
here is a better solution.... how about moving your air intake away from behind the radiator where all the hot air is.


That would certainly be a good start!

Adding an intercooler will mean pretty much a complete redesign of that setup. Water injection might be a possibility though.

Bare - 6/1/13 at 02:30 AM

Uncertain Intercooler piping setup is one thing of concern.
But IMO the design / build of the Lower A arms really does give me pause.
NOT something I would trust the skin on MY posterior to.. Ever.
Time for a rethink/build of those?

[Edited on 6/1/13 by Bare]

Ivan - 6/1/13 at 07:40 AM

I don't see how you will fit a an intercooler in there but a charge cooler might be possible. I would look at turning the large black suction pipe to the right and suck out of the side of the bonnet through an air filter giving space above the plenum to raise it, then put upward bending ram tubes on the manifold fed from below through a charge cooler - don't know if that would work without seeing inside the plenum.

big_wasa - 6/1/13 at 08:55 AM

I would move the inlet to give a cold air feed and look into methanol injection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPFZWd8wj4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Edited on 6/1/13 by big_wasa]

froggy - 6/1/13 at 10:44 AM

hard to see from the pics but it looks like an m45 with the throttle pre charger which is the right way to plumb a rootes blower so your options are to make a new plenum with a chargecooler built in or use water /meth injection .

you could spray into the throttle body so the spray cools the rotors and using a 50/50 mix will nake a big impact on charge temps .i used it for a while on my twin charged set up and spraying into the charger i could put my hand on the blower case after a hard run .

the downside is having the extra weight of a few gallons of mix and having to buy distilled water and meth in 25litre drums to get the cost down to just under £2 per gallon .if your car is around the 200hp mark you only need a 4gph nozzle so a couple of gallons will last several hundred miles of driving . a 9gph nozzle brought my inlet temps down to 38c on a 32c ambient day and gained me 2 psi of boost .

its a real marmite topic but from my experience if you have few options and you dont map the car to take advantage of the slight increase in knock protection it can work very well.

i took my system off as i bought a pwr barrel chargecooler and lower comp pistons but il be using it again on my next build which is 10-1 compression and twin turbo

MakeEverything - 6/1/13 at 11:26 AM

I've used the M45 on my renault 21 engine (first one to have done it on this engine as far as i can tell), and there are a number of things to consider;

Increasing the PSI on the supercharger is relative to the pulleys and subsequently the engine speed (Unless you have a BOV that is dumping some of the pressure before it peaks). You might find that its easier to find alternative methods of power increase before changing the pulleys and belts etc, which will all be pretty difficult to get to etc, so i would want to understand exactly how it all works before looking to change it.

The inlet is behind the radiator, so as above look to see where this can be moved to.

If you are going to increase the pressure, then you will need to increase fuelling to keep your AFR 'safe'. If you dont, youll burn something out which will cost lots to fix (in lay terms; im sure you have an idea of what could be burned out). Consider how youre going to monitor and change your fuel before you change it, then make sure you know exactly what is changed so that you can revert back to the original settings if it doesn't go to plan.

Look at the supercharger performance map on the eaton website, and see if your current / proposed supercharger speeds are within appropriate efficiency bands. The less efficient you are with the supercharger, the more heat you generate, with potentially less boost. Personally, the 2L engine i have used is pushing the M45 to its limits for the power i am seeking, but the next engine build will see the M62 introduced (if i ever get round to it!) as it has greater capacity. Something to think about though.

overall, i spent a lot of time calculating what i needed to do in terms of pulley sizes and power output which seems to be paying off. i would recommend you put some brainpower behind it first before taking the plunge, particularly if youre thinking of keeping the M45.


ETA: you could run a water injection system as above, to give you more air density. this might scratch your itch for a little more power.

[Edited on 6-1-13, by MakeEverything]

mark chandler - 6/1/13 at 12:48 PM

Without drastic replumbing of the inlet you would need to insert a charge cooler matrix into the exhaust of the supercharger/inlet to the block.

Sierra - 6/1/13 at 06:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Bare
Uncertain Intercooler piping setup is one thing of concern.
But IMO the design / build of the Lower A arms really does give me pause.
NOT something I would trust the skin on MY posterior to.. Ever.
Time for a rethink/build of those?

[Edited on 6/1/13 by Bare]


Can anyone elaborate on the above please as it has worried me abit. It's my first kit that I bought already built and didn't see an issue myself but might be wrong

fregis - 6/1/13 at 07:14 PM

how about water intercooler? can be placed between the manifold and the compressor
system

[Edited on 6/1/13 by fregis]

MikeRJ - 6/1/13 at 07:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Sierra
Can anyone elaborate on the above please as it has worried me abit. It's my first kit that I bought already built and didn't see an issue myself but might be wrong


You have front lower wishbones that use the original Ron Champion book design. These have some inherent design flaws:

1) The shock mounting is a long way from from the balljoint, meaning the wishbone has a high bending load from the weight of the car, and hitting bumps. Look at Caterham wishbones and you'll see the shock mounting is much closer to the balljoint. This is not easy to fix in the locost without many knock-on changes being needed.

2) The plate that the shock absorber is attached to creates a high stress area on the tubes at the point where the edge of the plate meets the tubes. Under braking, or hitting a pothole etc. the tubes experience a high bending load at this point (a pure wishbone would only load the tubes in tension and compression) and the wishbones have failed on some cars in the past.

This is a members car:


Improved wishbone designs have a radius cut into the rear edge of the plate, which has the effect of lowering the maximum stress.


Better still are the GTS style wishbones:

Sierra - 7/1/13 at 08:38 AM

Thanks for the info I had no idea. So are the later designed ones a direct fit for my car and if so where can I purchase them

laptoprob - 7/1/13 at 08:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Sierra
Thanks for the info I had no idea. So are the later designed ones a direct fit for my car and if so where can I purchase them


See my thread in the TIGER AVON dept or on TigerOwners forum.

Mac(Viatron or Snakebelly on here) sells them.

mark chandler - 7/1/13 at 10:06 PM

I,m sure a local builder could weld a couple of additional fillets to your own for a couple of beers, what's your location? If you go to your account settings/profile page you can add here.

You know they will fit then.

If you are near me then just drop in

Regards Mark