So, I want an engine for Enduance Rallies (so has to be reliable), track days, touring around Europe for fun, and local driving to go in my new Stylus project. I want an engine of 200+bhp with future tunability without costs going stratospheric.

So the top choices at the moment are:

S2000 - but you need £1.2k's worth of dry sump, and £400-£1100 of ECU on top of a £1500 engine - so too much really....

200sx (S14) - cheapish, turbo'd (good and bad if you know what I mean) and eminently tuneable - top choice so far

Duratec 2.3 - No real opinion of this engine, but I know it will need a fair bit of work to get it to 250bhp - though a little bird tells me this can be done with a new motor for around £2k plus gearbox and a few bits

I'm happy to spend £2kish at least

At the moment that's about it - opinions welcome

What about one of Volvorsport's big power Volvo turbo jobs?
Might be worth investigating.

How much would it cost to get 250BHP out of a Cossie?

Cheers,
James

[Edited on 25/8/05 by James]

Trouble with Cossie's I think is that they cost mega bucks when you get into serious tuning - look at Hicost - though for the power I want it may be fine, and aren't they all a bit old and thrashed ......

Thought the Volvo engines would be big and heavy - maybe not...... I'll ask!

[Edited on 25/8/05 by Jasper]

These put out around 200BHP standard. And I'm sure there are tweaking kits available. You could get hold of a complete car for less than £1000
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1995-ROVER-220-COUPE-TURBO-RED-low-miles_W0QQitemZ4570062841QQcategoryZ18262QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Just a thought.

Whats wrong with a Zetec + Jenveys+Camshafts etc?

RV8?

just think of the effortless torque and that sweet gurgle

RV8 - Old technology (;0), and my chassis isn't built for it....they do a specific RV8 chassis.

Zetec - possible - not sure if it's ok for big power tuning.....will check..

Rover 220 - FWD? And must be a reason it not often used......

Hi Jasper

Have you had a ride in Tim's stylus rt? Thats a duratec 2.0 with 225bhp, not been in it myself but watched it on the track

As for other engines it depends how much above 200 bhp you want to go, both the duratec and vx should make 250+ but at a price. Dont forget about gearbox too, even a modded type 9 will struggle with 250bhp, unless you go quaife S/C, but then theres the noise

I'm thinking of changine my pinto for a duratec but have been put off with the prices, £3K seems the going rate

Adrian

I think CairB has done a 2.3 duratec on the cheap, he might be worth speaking to.

What about a rotary engine, miles cheaper than an S2000 lump, light, compact, reliable and plenty of horsepower potential.

Might be best to use a turbo as 200hp N/A engine will be a little hard to silence, especially in a small kit car !

[Edited on 25/8/05 by 12a RX-7]

nissan still good option buy it with box attached and your away no messing hydraulic clutch as well

Mmmmm, £500 notes ebay nice donor.

Mike

whats for tea mother !

16v custom venolia piston , aka redbloxk 2.3 turbo engine

16v piston and spacer platey thingy

[Edited on 25/8/05 by Volvorsport]

Zetec with cams and thrrotle bodies.

What about a vauxhall c20let? (XE Turbo'd). 204bhp standard and tuneable? Always available if u can beat off the nova/corsa boyz. Cavs and calibra's are cheap with them in.

Don't knock James and the Volvo route - go and see Rallycross when the Scandinavians are in town. Seriously simple power plants already set up as RWD.

Duratec V6? Noble stick twin turbos on them for a comfy 300bhp. Even in ST24 form they are a rock solid 170 bhp and ladles of torque.

Saab 9-5 Aero? 2.3 turbo four pot, 250 bhp as standard!

Rolls Royce Merlin - 27 litres, bit of understeer, won the war, pull the chicks (probably through the inlets!)

Of the above, I'd recommend in no particular order:

S2000
Duratec V6
2.3 Duratec I4
Cossie
NSX
XE

Most of the above (not sure about the S2k) have already been fitted in a Stylus.

Stephen

PS Where "down sarf" are you? May be worth a trundle along to your local Sylva meet

[Edited on 25/8/05 by stevebubs]

Not meaning to flog an dead horse or teach you to suck eggs, but one thing to bear in mind in the search for big(ish) power if you only have 2k to spend is the cost of all the ancillaries (exhaust, ECU, throttlebodies etc)

[Edited on 25/8/05 by stevebubs]

TVR Speed 6 here although I doubt it'll end at £5!

Mike

a well setup turbo 2.3 will happily sit at 350 hp all day , as long as its in good shape - that would incude most of the ancillaries including megasquirt !

as I see it the main issue here is that you are talking about power levels that will make for anything but a relaxed tourer, particularly if turbocharged!

My view would be that 200hp is plenty in your car, and a std vauxhall XE on throttle bodies and an afternarket ECU will set you back around £2k and will give an utterly bulletproof 200hp ( I have run these for a long time now (since 1996) and they are superb)

you have to remember that £2k budget is absolutely peanuts when it comes to this sort of engine spec. I know of several people running self-built duratecs that have spent £15k to get 245hp.............but they are very quick and they win in competition.

There is a huge amount of billy talked on here and at the pub about power outputs!!!!!!!!!! Worth bearing in mind when making decisions, base them on results that you can see for yourself.

quote:

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Originally posted by Danozeman
Zetec with cams and thrrotle bodies.

What about a vauxhall c20let? (XE Turbo'd). 204bhp standard and tuneable? Always available if u can beat off the nova/corsa boyz. Cavs and calibra's are cheap with them in.

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A bit on the heavy side and expencive for the parts and gaskets etc but....

The 2.9 V6 Cosworth engine out of the Scorpio Ultima puts out around 200bhp and go for peanuts (£100 ish) and1 from an auto would prob be like new!

Or we've been offered a 2.5 V6 Duratec B4 for £150 not sure what BHP they put out and i think there all alloy.

i forgot to add the 3 litre straight six all alloy engine is 204 hp , its begging for triple webbers !!!.

and it fits in my chassis ! - i think most of the opinion is 200 hp can be had reliably - point is you say scope for improvement - exactly how much ?

quote:

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Originally posted by Volvorsport
i forgot to add the 3 litre straight six all alloy engine is 204 hp , its begging for triple webbers !!!.

and it fits in my chassis ! - i think most of the opinion is 200 hp can be had reliably - point is you say scope for improvement - exactly how much ?

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Just curious - why does an s2000 engine need dry sumping and an ecu?? It's already in a grippy sports car and couldn't you run it on the standard management or something cheapish like an Emerald, or even megasquirt?

How about a BMW as a donor? Not sure on their power levels but a 328, 530, 535 engine must be at that sort of level.

Liam

Nissan SR20DET. Readily available with RWD gearbox from the Nissan 200SX (S14/14a). 200bhp in stock form, but very tuneable.

200bhp I will probably find plenty - but you never know!! I loved the power to weight of my BEC - and this car will have carpets, windscreen, hood, and other goodies so it will be heavier.

I don't necessarily think that over 200bhp + turbo charging will make a bad tourer, I've driven hicosts car at +300bhp and because it's set up well it drives very (suprisingly) sedately until you want to give it some, then it takes off.

Liam - s2000 does need dry sumping especially if used on track because they have had a few problems with oil starvation with No3 cylinder - and when you spend that much on an engine you don't want it going bang.... and the ECU can be fooled but it's tricky and probably beyong my capabilities - similarly with megasquirt - an Emerald is £400+, but the best is the AEM at £1000+

And if some chaps spent £15k on a duratec to get it to 245bhp he must be f**king mad.....

I realise £2k is not much on an engine for 200bhp .... but it can be done - look at the 200sx s14 - can be picked up for <£700 leaving plenty for ancillaires - many of which like new rad/fan/fuel pumps/a bag load of Samco and stainless hose clips/stainless exhaust with cat (no manifold) etc came with the car.

I've been in a RV8 Stylus with a four barrel holley and other internal tweaks that apparently makes +220bhp which was a very nice drive - bags of torque.....met a few other Silva owners at a local pub, a rather interesting lot.......

BTW I'm down in Brighton

Cheers for all the input so far.....

Go for the zetec, cheap enough for you to fit TBs and aftermarket ECU. Other good point if driving abroad is that any old back street garage can help with simple repairs and spares available almost anywhere.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jasper

BTW I'm down in Brighton

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BTW You'd be surprised just how many Sylva owners probably live within a couple of miles of you

quote:

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Originally posted by zetec
Go for the zetec, cheap enough for you to fit TBs and aftermarket ECU. Other good point if driving abroad is that any old back street garage can help with simple repairs and spares available almost anywhere.

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Toyota 3SGE perhaps?

3SGE LINK

If you were interested in a v6 duratec heres a brand new on eBay. Click

Steve, been to Liphook and met Nev - seemed a nice and very knowledgeable chap - there were only 7 people there including me and the two Stylus chaps I went with, the other 3 guys didn't say two words to me, and I even bought one of them a drink! Friendly Locosters they most certainly weren't.

Not so much worried about what will fit, as most things will - it's more about what will be right for me.

I'm currently moving towards the Duratec 2.3. The car has already been built with one of these in (since removed and returned to Raceline), so it has all plumbing etc ready for one, including Bailey Morris prop fitted and a full set of Samco's, and I can probably get hold of the exhaust manifold and engine mounts from the chap I bought it from too - he still has them. Would make a lot of sense really.

But hey - I'm in no rush .......

oh go on then, i can't keep me gob shut!!!

Alfa V6 £150 the lot, bish bosh job done.

Very reliable, 200BPH, lovely sound, all ally, what more do you want.

OK if not them, the volvo or the Nissan are good options. The nissans seem to be prone to bottom end failure, and usually keep their price now cos the are drifters delight.

Alfa - reliable - really??? suppose it would be with new electrics....

Wot about the gearbox? Aren't they most FWD? And weight? Are they heavy?

Now you've got me thinking - I love that engine.......

Glad I've got plenty of time

[Edited on 30/8/05 by Jasper]

I think that there will be an article in next months PPC mag on the conversion.

The engine is about the same weight as a pinto.

The only rear wheel drive applications of this engine was using the transaxle, or the very rare alfa six gearbox which mounted directly behind the engine.

We have mated it to ford type 9, long shaft V6, and also short shaft, using a home made bellhouising.

I am currently looking at using the front part of the bellhousing from the original alfa 164 gearbox, and just using a simpler adaptor plate in stead. If this works then we can use all the alfa clutch bits aswell ( except the clutch plate, Galaxy)

This must be one the best engines ever. Very cheap,( full car £150) loads od spares, cos the cars rot.

An the best sound you can get from an engine

You have an email!!

jasper,
re the duratec 2.3 i read (on here i think) that someone built a rally engine with a bore out to 2.5l capacity and with relatively mild cams it was making around 290bhp.

the key imho is to get the power without revving the lump if possible. reliability issues often come with high rpm's (more to go wrong easier imho). when standard engines start to need new/uprated internals is when its not worth bothering about when on budget and reliability constraints.

I love the xe but i think next time i'd go for an ally engine for the weight advantages. a relatively lazy v6 is a good option and are available cheap. the ford v6 is another option which might even have a standard bellhousing fit.

Ned.

quote:

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Originally posted by ned

the key imho is to get the power without revving the lump if possible.

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