Pretty soon I will be looking at firing up my 2.5 V6 Duratec and I am interested in exploring my options. I have the original Mondeo ST24 ECU and loom but I understand that this will be very difficult to use because of all the security features built in to it.

A custom made ECU & loom would seem to be the best option, but at a price

Does anyone know of any alternatives that won't cost the earth?

make the loom yourself, not at all tricky, and get a secondhand ECU.

You can pick them up if you keep an eye out. I bought both of my MBE 956 ecu's secondhand and relatively cheaply (basically £600 for the full setup incl throttle bodies, manifold, air filter, loom, fuel rails, ram pipes, throttle pot, coil pack, etc etc)

Are you retaining the original injection? If so I don't think you'll get a much cheaper solution than a megasquirt ECU, but your time investment will be greater than an "of the shelf" solution.

I was hoping to keep it as simple as possible, so keeping the original injection would seem to be easier, although I think you have to get around the Ford intake system which uses primary and secondary bores triggered by the ECU.

I am a reasonably competent technician so soldering and wiring a Megasquirt system shouldn't be much of a problem. If the cost savings are significant I might go with this - on the other hand if I can find a second hand ready-made system for £600 sounds ...... But where do start looking and what spec??

To be honest I am totally green when it comes to which bits to buy - I assumed that I could just rip it out of the donor and pop it in my car ...... NOW I know it isn't quite as simple as that mind you, the last car I built was 25 years ago when injection was just a 'good idea' and everything was lashed together with araldite and baling wire

[Edited on 24-9-05 by RazMan]

have you thought about using the Cosworth 24v ECU from a late granada? I know its not a perfect match, but then i have run my 24v cossie on a Escort cosworth ECU and it worked ok. Dont ask why i tried. just for fun i think!

but you might get away with it... They are fairly cheap to pick up from ebay i think...

hi raz man, are you using the original gearbox from the st24? I'm thinking of using the duratec v6 mounted north-south in my new project but not sure whether the original gearbox will be useable in front mounted rwd as ive never seen one.... anyone any ideas?

As the ST24 is a FWD car, it has a transaxle so is not suitable for north/south mounting in this form. I just moved the whole lot to the rear and turned it round 180 degrees to make a middy RWD.
I would imagine that you could marry it up to a conventional gearbox with a suitable adaptor though - not really my field but hopefully of some help

Hi Razman

If you've turned the engine around 180 degrees, wont it drive backwards?

Adrian

quote:

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Originally posted by ady8077
Hi Razman

If you've turned the engine around 180 degrees, wont it drive backwards?

Adrian

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Just stumbled across these guys ..

link

They are advertising a full 4 pot engine management system starting from £380!

Apparently they can do one for my V6 for around £550 which is loads cheaper than the competition. Not as cheap as the Mega squirt/jolt but ready made with maps.

Has anyone tried them?


[Edited on 14-10-05 by RazMan]

thats Dave Walkers company and the ECU is really really good.

Judging from their website, Dave really knows his stuff. I have sent an email for a bit more information but it's looking good so far

quote:

---

Originally posted by RazMan
Judging from their website, Dave really knows his stuff. I have sent an email for a bit more information but it's looking good so far

---

Hi Stephen,
My engine a 2.5L Duratec V6. I would like to know if I need to modify the engine in any way to incorporate their ECU? I understand that they supply a loom which only requires a connector to be transferred from the donor loom. The only questionable area would appear to be Ford’s variable inlet system – do I need to hold the secondary chokes open or does their ECU take this on too? Also, I want to incorporate a nitrous injection system and this was mentioned in their website info somewhere – can this be written into the map?

Ideally I would like a ‘shopping list’ of parts required but any information will be appreciated.

After contacting Emerald, I was told (more or less) that they were too busy to think about supplying me with a suitable setup as they were not familiar with the V6 - so its back to the drawing board.

Can anyone help me out? - I'm getting a bit desperate now for an 'off the shelf' system now!

[Edited on 25-10-05 by RazMan]

Emerald are very good, but with only Dave and Karl there they get a bit busy.

Alternative ECU's are available from DTAFast, extremely good and not TOO pricey - DTAFast

OMEX - speak to a chap that I know called Steve Walford - SW Motorsport he's running a VW VR6 engine in an autograss car with am omex ecu, and he maps them as well.

Alternatively look out on racecar forums for s/h systems!

That great NS Dev - much appreciated

I have emailed both people and I'll let you know how I get on.

With all this fafing around you could of got a megasquirt system up and running by now

Their are some US guys on probetalk.com that are running ms systems.

Yep, you are probably right Gav - I might still go that way if I can't find a suitable system.

Sorry to hear your still having probs.
Have you tried these people?
http://www.griffinpower.co.uk/
Realy nice, friendly guy.
Have a chat with him if you haven't allready.
PS. How's the back?
When you coming round to have a look?
Away till Monday, from tonight.
Next week?

[Edited on 25-10-05 by BKLOCO]

[Edited on 25-10-05 by BKLOCO]

Hi mate!!

I've had a word with Griffin and it looks as though they will be too expensive - they quoted me £1200 for their base map and a further £300 for a rolling road setup.
I was hoping to get everything for under a grand including rolling road (if neccessary) Serves me right for being a skinflint I suppose.

Ah well ... the search continues.

My back is still giving me grief
More tests, more waiting lists

I will still be here next week - give me a shout when you are off-shift ..... I can just about lift a kettle to make some coffee

quote:

---

Originally posted by RazMan
Hi mate!!

I've had a word with Griffin and it looks as though they will be too expensive - they quoted me £1200 for their base map and a further £300 for a rolling road setup.
I was hoping to get everything for under a grand including rolling road (if neccessary) Serves me right for being a skinflint I suppose.

Ah well ... the search continues.

My back is still giving me grief
More tests, more waiting lists

I will still be here next week - give me a shout when you are off-shift ..... I can just about lift a kettle to make some coffee

---

Bloomin' heck, that sounds like a really good deal!

When I phoned Griffin, they gave me a price as follows:

700 series ECU - £941
2 Sender units - £32
Engine bay loom - £180
Rolling road map - £300

...... a bit steep considering it uses the Duratec's coil pack too.
Don't get me wrong - it's probably a great system but just a bit too rich for my pocket.

quote:

---

Originally posted by NS Dev
.....give him a call on 0121 694 0740 and tell him that Nat from M+L Autograss club sent you! When you finish talking to him, ask him where my ruddy gearbox is!!!!

---

best to call him in the early evening, as sw motorsport is part time business, outside of his day job.

Razman, you have U2U re. something very interesting on Ebay!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by RazMan
Bloomin' heck, that sounds like a really good deal!

When I phoned Griffin, they gave me a price as follows:

700 series ECU - £941
2 Sender units - £32
Engine bay loom - £180
Rolling road map - £300

...... a bit steep considering it uses the Duratec's coil pack too.
Don't get me wrong - it's probably a great system but just a bit too rich for my pocket.

quote:

---

Originally posted by NS Dev
.....give him a call on 0121 694 0740 and tell him that Nat from M+L Autograss club sent you! When you finish talking to him, ask him where my ruddy gearbox is!!!!

---

I'll do that tomorrow!


[Edited on 25-10-05 by RazMan]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NS Dev
Razman, you have U2U re. something very interesting on Ebay!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gav
With all this fafing around you could of got a megasquirt system up and running by now

Their are some US guys on probetalk.com that are running ms systems.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by stevebubs
Does the probe not use a Mazda engine?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RazMan
Hi Stephen,
My engine a 2.5L Duratec V6. I would like to know if I need to modify the engine in any way to incorporate their ECU? I understand that they supply a loom which only requires a connector to be transferred from the donor loom. The only questionable area would appear to be Ford’s variable inlet system – do I need to hold the secondary chokes open or does their ECU take this on too? Also, I want to incorporate a nitrous injection system and this was mentioned in their website info somewhere – can this be written into the map?

Ideally I would like a ‘shopping list’ of parts required but any information will be appreciated.

---

Apparently, most of the modern ECU's easily look after things like Nitrous, fuel pump, water pump(if electric) and the racing requirements such as launch control, traction control, rev limiting etc etc.
Most of these feature would have been considered very advanced only a few years ago but with the microprocessors being so cheap now they are used in just about every design.

quote:

---

Originally posted by stevebubs
Any secondary butterflies should be kept open and only the main throttlebody used to vary the air intake. Only exception to this would be IACV - the Emerald was designed to be a plug replacement for a Rover MEMS ECU so can drive a rover IACV directly..

---

you wont go far wrong with MBE .

im using MS with EDIS - and capable for 2 bar boost - with the latest software you can control a few things , if your good with software you might be able to program it yourself (the second throttle)

of course this is 4 cyl stuff - but edis 6 can be controlled by the same computer !

its all much of a muchness if you cant tune it properly tho !! so get the best rolling road operator you can find .

dennis vessey is an appointed MBE dealer .

Just had a thought (rare, I know)...

If you're running a V6 then a couple of sets of throttlebodies from a speed triple should do you nicely.

Probably won't cost you that much, either

Stephen

quote:

---

Originally posted by stevebubs
If you're running a V6 then a couple of sets of throttlebodies from a speed triple should do you nicely.

Probably won't cost you that much, either

---

using the software to map isnt that hard - the skill is knowing/listening using the instruments to get the best out of the engine .

eg on megasquirt using the arrow keys adds more or less fuel , its that simple , but the skill of the operator will be listening for pink and watching his AFRs .

some Ecu have self tune to a degree , even MS has this now , as long as youve got closed loop with a wideband !

quote:

---

Originally posted by RazMan

quote:

---

Originally posted by stevebubs
If you're running a V6 then a couple of sets of throttlebodies from a speed triple should do you nicely.

Probably won't cost you that much, either

---

Stephen - I was originally thinking about some throttle bodies but decided to stick to the original injection - the tb's would have to go on top of the 'V' and the existing plenum is only 20mm away from the engine bay. It would mean quite a bit of body work due to the design of my car. Plus a lot of people say that tb's always make enclosed cars smell of petrol (which wouldn't be too much of a problem in a Seven) Ask any Ultima driver and you probably get the same answer.

Out of interest, are you referring to the Triumph Speed Triple?

[Edited on 30-10-05 by RazMan]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Volvorsport
the skill of the operator will be listening for pink and watching his AFRs

---

Interested to know how far you get with this. I have a cougar V6 as my normal car. The engine is sweet and would love to put it in the kit.

The exhausts are gonna be a b1tch.

On the cougar forum i have heard of some guys replacing a lot of bits with the st220 mondeo and ending up with 220bhp like the mondeo. I think there is a company that does it all for you (not cheap though)

Going for throttle bodies would probably give you close to that figure anyway i guess, but like you say difficult to fit in.

Andy

After doing a bit of searching I quickly discovered that the V6 isn't really a popular engine to tune like the 4 pot Duratec. The only options for upping the power seem to be:

1. Improve intake breathing - ST200 inlet manifold & throttle body. K&N style air filter.
(allegedly up to 10 bhp)

2. Decent catless exhaust system. (5-10 bhp)

These mods should bring it closer to 200 bhp. Serious power increases will undoubtably cost equally serious money ...... except for nitrous oxide

slightly off topic. so sorry . but if anyone wants an 2.9 24v v6 newer shape lump i have a brand new one in the shed doing nothing. quite cheep.

o and as for your engine if it hasn't been said b4. emerald are very good. i have a std engine in a tvr s2 running 220 with only an air filter as mods.

Stu

FlansS14 - You have U2U

Here is the info taken from the Cougar Owners club forum:

Well here goes. Please make sure you read the notes at the very bottom of this post.

Package Prices

+40bhp package for 2.5 and 3.0 engines consisting of:
Fully modified heads
Four fast road CAMs
Six branch exhaust manifold
Gaskets, plugs, oil, filters, new head bolts
Tuned on their rolling road with before and after power curves
All fully fitted for £3250

ProCharger conversion 2.5 V6 fully fitted (Includes Emerald ECU) £4950
ProCharger conversion 3.0 V6 fully fitted (Includes Emerald ECU) £4950

Parts Prices

Six Branch exhaust manifold ...... +15-20bhp......£395
Vortex Exhaust.......from £300
Set of modified Camshafts (Exchange) ......+10bhp......£305
Pair of polished and ported heads (Exchange) ......+15-20bhp......£795
Short Engine 2.5 V6 (Exchange).......£1295
Short Engine 3.0 V6 (Exchange).......£1995
New Emerald ECU with rolling road mappings ......£995
Uprated Injectors.......£79 each
Metal Impeller water pump ......£70
Uprated paddle clutch.......£275
Reconditioned MTX-75 gearbox......£495
Quaife LSD........£525
Forged steel Con Rod set ........£900
Forged piston set, with rings ......£900
Booster fuel pump .......£175
FSE Powervalve.......£95
Automatic to Manual conversion........Contact them for details
Rear Wheel drive conversion with five or six speed gearbox........Contact them for details

Note 1. Bhp increases are estimates and will vary between engines
Note 2. Bhp figures are based on the std ECU. More power is expected with new ECU and injectors.
Note 3. All prices exclude fitting unless specifically mentioned
Note 4. All prices exclude VAT.

Company is called Autocraft.

Thanks for the info - all of it!

There seems to be quite a lot of kit (and cash) for such small gains in power. If I was thinking of rebuilding the engine to tune it to the hilt it would be better (for me) to sell the ST24 lump and simply buy a brand new ST220 to give me similar power gains for around half the money.

My car is going to be a daily driver and track day car so I need to consider any investment carefully. As we all know, about 99% of any car's use is cruising along on motorways, A roads etc at somewhere near the legal limit .... . The remaining 1% is usually on the track with maybe the occasional 'spirited' burst on normal roads (embarrassing that £200,000 supercar )

I think my money would be better spent on a decent nitrous kit which will spend much of it's life switched off, except for that little extra burst when required. My nitrous kit cost me £100 second hand and should give me an extra 60 - 80 bhp on demand.

I have now placed an order for an MBE EMS which will also be capable of triggering the nitrous too