There have been a few threads recently about Locosts being 'under powered' with a pinto fitted.

This worries me somewhat, as I was rather hoping to be able to leave my mates Cooper S behind (0-60 about 7.2secs) even with a reatively standard pinto (fitted with 38DGAS). Since I am building on a budget, thats about all I can afford to fit at the moment. I would hope with a rebuilt engine, the carb and free flowing exhaust to get about 110bhp. I would hope to be sub 600kg (not sure how realistic that is with a pinto lump, to be honest).

As a next step after getting it on the road and having some fun I am considering either fitting a duratec or tuning the pinto. Whichever will give me the most amount of power for the least amount of ££. I am guessing 160bhp form a pinto can be had cheaper than from a duratec...?

Basically, are my assumptions as to the performance about right? Or am I being a bit hopeful?

I know they are all quick around the corners...

Cheers,
David

You may not beat the 7.2 with a standard pinto.

If you do a bit of tuning you could get up to 150 BHP with the 38 DGAS (Some head work, a new cam, free flow exhaust etc)

You will need to spend some cash but a lot of what you need is on Ebay and not too expensive.

More than 150 BHP and you need to get a bit more involved and spend a bit more serious cash, but still a lot less than a duratec - Going fast is easy if you spend loads of money, but I take some pleasure out of going fast with an old boat anchor on a budget

Good luck

Mark

ps just waiting for the wise guys "put a bike engine in it"......sooooo predictable

my indy has a standard 2 ltr pinto with a 38 webber , it will just grab that 7 secs to 60 , but lacks the power top end.
i am running 3.62 diff which helps bottom end grunt but fizzles out at 95 , and will only do 105 on a good day.
there are some twin 48 webbers on ebay at the moment , i have just been looking at , but i think 40s or 45s will be plenty good enough.

48's are too much for all but the most highly tuned pinto.

Just asa matter of intrest what sort of power can the bottom end of the pinto block take with out mod
Im sure, when I had a Mk3 Cortina 2.0l GXL (aahh the good old days) 20 years ago and fitted high lift cam there was a common thought that more than 130bhp and the big ends will start to protest loudly in pretty quick time.
Maybe the crank was improved after that .
Just a thought!!

remeber that pintos are a bit old these days and while 95 / 105 BHP were quoted cor basic carbed / EFI engines, lack of maintenance and 15 years of use can mean that an unreconditioned eninge might not offer the full grunt that a reconditioned unit might. People complaining of an under powered engine might actually have an under powered engine.

not tryin to be a 'wise guy', but can't you get more power out of certain japanese 1litre engines,just a thought!!! ahem!!!

My std pinto with std carb was 0-60 in 6 seconds. No problem!

A bike engine is a big no no, for me anyway. They should stay where they belong in my opinion (in a bike). Yes they make quick cars, but I want to use my car everyday (pretty much) so need something a bit more civilised in the engine department at least! I want torque and power without revving to 11krpm+. Besides I couldnt afford to put a bike engine in even if I wanted to!

Still like to hear from more people with relatively standard pintos as to what performance they are getting. It still suprises me that sub 7sec might not be possible with about 110bhp available... [Edit] Andy, thats more like the performance I would expect...!

I will be after a pinto engine very soon (around easter time hopefully) so will keep my eyes out for a half decent one. No doubt I will put a wanted ad on here when the time comes, maybe someone will have a reconditioned or tweaked one then... (If only Hicost had waited a couple of months! )

David

[Edited on 16/1/06 by flak monkey]

I've only been for a drive in one pinto powered mk and that scared the crap out of me and it was totally standard. I've yet to drive my 2.0 pinto properly yet and it's quite modified

When my Indy had a pinto with an FR34 cam, reground valves std EECIV, cut down EFI I managed 0-60 in 6 secs, 2 up around 750kg total weight. It took a bit of doing though and the standard gearbox ratios don't help.

A 2.0 Duratec in good nick with ITB's should be good for 190 bhp+ as standard. One of the other big gains is the weight loss up front as it weights a lot less than a pinto or VX.

Using bike throttle bodies and Megasquirt and s/h or home fabricated parts could keep the installation costs down.

The Sports2000 racing series uses this engine and seem to think that this engine is more cost effective than a pinto being pushed to similar power.

Cheers,

Colin

[Edited on 16/1/06 by CairB]

you can get to 60 faster with any engine if you change the gearing I use a 3.92 diff instead of the more usual 3.62 which helps a bit.

Cheers

Mark

With a Pinto you would probably get a better 0-60 time by lowering the diff ratio a lot -- using Escort van axle and ignoring 1st gear altogether and start in 2nd.

Part of the trouble is it isn't a free revving engine, the great mass of the fly wheel and big clutch dosen't help.

I've bin pretty much neck and neck with a Clio V6,

Think we had the twin 40's at the time (alright if kept revving but needed rolling roading), FR32 cam, gas flowed head and lightened flywheel.

I think the clio was his new car tho and I was definately alot more confident than he was around roundabouts etc.

Its probably all in moderation, spend a reasonable amount on the engine and be just as reasonable about the weight.

wouldnt you be better off getting a xflow, seeing as you dont have an engine so arnt tied with using the donor.

i know what i'd be buying

[Edited on 16/1/06 by graememk]

I know the xflow is a smaller and lighter engine, but how does it compare in other respects to a pinto (power, torque and power to weight of the overall car and engine)

I have a sneaking suspision that a pinto generates more power and torque than an xflow...

David

The pinto is a real nice engine with bags of torque, Im up to around 150 bhp with mine at the wheels, but still it will bumble around town no problem.

Most of the power comes from alot of head work, puma race engines do a nice link regarding the pinto.

The weak points are the rods, and always use arp rod bolts if you want to be al ittle safer.

Forgot to mention that my gearbox that i had was from a transit van so 2nd gear was warp factor 9!!

A tuned Pinto can be quite expensive against a duratec or zetec.

I bought a 2.1 pinto (160bhp Spec) from vulcan engineering for over £3k. on the very short drive i have had (30m up and down my drive) the pick up was frightening.

BUT a pinto is good for 80K before a rebuild a zetec could be good for 150k plus and is only a couple of hundred quid. a full aftermarket fuel injection system could see 200BHP for a couple of grand.

i now have a very expensive engine that i am stuck with rather than a powerful throw away engine.

research well it might save you money in the long run (a lesson that i have learned only to well). thahs not to say i am not happy with the pinto, i am and a simpleton like me can work on it

Ditch

I don't really thrash my car but I find the 2.1 pinto with a high lift cam has all the power I need.

The pinto has two huge advantages over the Zetec.

1. They're virtually free.

2. They run on points ignition and carbs.

I'll probably put a zetec in when somebody invents a cheap reliable ignition/fuel injection system, until then the easy to work on "boat anchor" will do me.

Cheers

Chris

Never considered a great engine even back in 1970 the Pinto wasn't Fords worst engine that was 1200 pre-xflow kent -- just the second worst. When the Essex V4 was phased out fleet owners ressisted it being put in the petrol Transit 75 forcing Ford to keep the 1600 xflo in production for a few years more.

As stated above, they weren't the most powerful lump when new but ebay is swimming with Pinto bits as everyone is going for more modern engines.
See here, here, here and here. Just go to Ebay and type in Ford Pinto. The other advantage being if it goes bang it'll be about £50 for another one, tyr getting a Duratec for £50
Don't worry too much about feeling 'left out in the cold', it didn't seem five minutes ago that the Zetec was hailed as the new engine for all seasons, now it is being held up as old/heavy/underpowered compared to the Duratec. I don't care as (hopefully) people will start to ditch their nasty old Zetecs in favour of Duratecs, meaning I'll be able to get loads of hot-up parts relatively cheap
And I agfree with you about bike engines, great for thrashing but I wouldn't want to live with one all the time

quote:

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Originally posted by flak monkey
I know the xflow is a smaller and lighter engine, but how does it compare in other respects to a pinto (power, torque and power to weight of the overall car and engine)

I have a sneaking suspision that a pinto generates more power and torque than an xflow...

David

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Think I will stick with my original decision and fit the pinto.

Its cheap and can be tuned cheaply as well. Normal parts also look like they are very cheap. If i get sub 7 seconds with the standard engine then I will be very happy, and it should amuse me for a few months until I can afford to tweak it up.

Anyone know if that exhaust manifold (Linky) would be easily modified to fit in a Locost?? Rather tempted by it as its in Lynn (ie my Dad can pick it up for me!)

David

Probably not mate. Sorry for posting the link, it was just to illustrate a point. Most exhaust fannymoulds available on Ebay are for tin tops and are made to fit the close confines of an engine bay and are thus not long enough to clear the top cahssis rails of a Seven. Although, you could fit it, do a cut 'n shut on the secondaries and bring it out of the side of the bodywork through one large hole?
This was one there 'n all!

Oh well, never mind.

The problem I would forsee with fitting it in would be getting the steering link past it. I guess thats why most pinto engined cars take the exhaust over the top of the chassis rails...

The head looks tempting. Got my eye on another one thats only got an FR33 cam fitted to an otherwise standard head, and its a lot less money (£20). Though I have asked the guy what extent that head (in your link) has been ported to. See how the work compares with that listed in Des Hamills book.

David

Ref exhausts - i messed about for ages trying to get a stock manifold to fit OK. My engine is further back which made it a touch harder. Sierra twin outlet manifold simply wouldnt fit. Cortina single would but the daft bends i had to fabricate to get it to exit were screeming bad flow to me. In the end i bit the bullet and splashed out for a full Mac#1 stainless system. Im so pleased i did. Not only for fit and flow but also for looks - to me it is part of the aesthetics of the car.

If you want decent performance on a budget you need good flow in and out and a decent head. I started with injection lump and flowed it a bit using Des Hammills guide. Slow to do but not that hard. I quite enjoyed it. Skim and valves recut was done professionally. I got FR32 cam off ebay for £40ish. Also fitted new springs and followers etc. Im using 38DGAS which is good. Im struggling with filter clearance so part of foam filter is masked by bonnet. Eventually im hoping to go bike carb route and 2.1 rebuild. Dave Walker posted a nice link a while back which said he could do machining work for not a lot of money to get 2.1. http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=23342

If you have the money fit a Cosworth head.....

when i said my indy did 60 in 7 secs , that was a conservitve estemate,it was hand timed using a mobilephone ,and to much wheel spin off the line.
it was probebly nearer 6.5 .

by the way ,has any body else had problems reaching the ton , i dont know if its power ,diff ,gearing,aerodynamics or that my exhaust manifold was made in a bit of a rush and all the pipes are different lenghs. my diff is 3.62 and type 9 box from a 1600 pinto.

quote:

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by the way ,has any body else had problems reaching the ton , i dont know if its power ,diff ,gearing,aerodynamics or that my exhaust manifold was made in a bit of a rush and all the pipes are different lenghs. my diff is 3.62 and type 9 box from a 1600 pinto.

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Ah all this Pinto talk thought i'd join in.
Last year i added a bit more power to my mk2 RS2000 in the form of a T3 Garrett turbo On the dyno running 7.5 psi on a standard CR pinto EFi it put out 162bhp @ the wheels and its fun.

So fit one of these


and you get this

You actually kept the original injection system as well? How on earth did you get that to work properly?

Thats just what i was going to ask!! Oh, splash 200 odd squid on a CA18DET out of a 200sx, bout 160bhp standard. Much more fun.

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Originally posted by jon_boy
Thats just what i was going to ask!! Oh, splash 200 odd squid on a CA18DET out of a 200sx, bout 160bhp standard. Much more fun.

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And easily tunable to 200bhp+ very cheaply....

Turbo powered car that ways less than a paper weight, i dont think so, go super charged, far mor controlable.!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by britishtrident
Never considered a great engine even back in 1970 the Pinto wasn't Fords worst engine that was 1200 pre-xflow kent -- just the second worst. When the Essex V4 was phased out fleet owners ressisted it being put in the petrol Transit 75 forcing Ford to keep the 1600 xflo in production for a few years more.

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quote:

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Originally posted by britishtrident



The xflo is a much better engine -- but its expensive to rebuild these days.
[Edited on 17/1/06 by britishtrident]

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Sorry to contradict , but some Transit's did indeed have the 1600 x flow engine, my brother had one from new.

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Originally posted by TheKingofBling
Turbo powered car that ways less than a paper weight, i dont think so, go super charged, far mor controlable.!!!!

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