Board logo

Suzuki TL1000S gearbox (and engine) data
NS Dev - 23/10/06 at 08:46 AM

Can anybody point me to a resource or the information itself, regarding Suzuki TL1000S gearbox and drop gear ratios.

Basically I need to be able to work out engine RPM vs wheel speed, and sort the necessary sprockets to achieve specific wheel speeds in certain gears, therefore I need max power rpm, max torque rpm, plus drop gear ratio and all the gearbox ratios.

Also can anybody (Froggy ?) tell me whether these motors have hydraulic or cable clutch as std, and how easy it looks to modify to hydraulic of cable as std? (I'm guessing not too bad, but you never know! )

Any help much appreciated, trying to sort what size sprockets i'm likely to need on the new grasser for the countershaft that links the two engines.

Next will be to call some more breakers and see what sort of deal I can get on a pair of engine kits!........ look like £650 each at the mo from initial calls...........

Coose - 23/10/06 at 08:57 AM

Try www.tlplanet.com for all things TL related. Be careful when it comes to engine choice - the early 'S' engines had weak crankcases and would crack around the output shaft. This happened to a mate earlier on this year....

Also, 2nd hand gearboxes are like hens teeth, but individual gears are only about £60 a piece, but if you need several the costs can soon rack up.

If you need any further info, a good friend of mine races one (139bhp and 86ft.lb of torque at the rear wheel! ) so feel free to give me a shout and I can forward any questions on to him.

Winston Todge - 23/10/06 at 09:05 AM

I remember somone talking about a twin engined TL grasser a while back.

I think Brian at PsyCraft supplied the engines. It maybe worth a call?

As for the build, I'd love to see some pictures of it! What system are you using to link the drive from both output shafts?

I'd still really like to build a powerful V-twin engined car... Just for the noise more than anything! I was very close to getting a Aprilia Mille motor for mine at the beginning...

Chris.

NS Dev - 23/10/06 at 01:15 PM

thanks for the info, but being lazy (and ridiculously short of time these days!!!) can anybody find me a simple list of what engines were made between what dates (i.e. strong crankcase vs weak one etc) and also what gear ratios were fitted to what year etc etc etc.

I don't want to buy two engines from 2 different years and find they have different ratios on the boxes!!!!!

Is the TL1000R the better bet, or are these less powerful as std?

NS Dev - 23/10/06 at 01:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Coose
Try www.tlplanet.com for all things TL related. Be careful when it comes to engine choice - the early 'S' engines had weak crankcases and would crack around the output shaft. This happened to a mate earlier on this year....

Also, 2nd hand gearboxes are like hens teeth, but individual gears are only about £60 a piece, but if you need several the costs can soon rack up.

If you need any further info, a good friend of mine races one (139bhp and 86ft.lb of torque at the rear wheel! ) so feel free to give me a shout and I can forward any questions on to him.


If you could ask him what I posted in the post above that would be great, cheers!

of note with these engines is the torque, not the number but the curve.

The peak torque number is no more than a 4 cyl bike engine of similar capacity, as you would expect, but this torque is spread much more evenly across the rev range and comes in much lower down than the 4 cyl engines.

Coose - 23/10/06 at 01:57 PM

Have a look at his torque curve here.

I'll see if I can get ahold of him and will post back if I have any info....

NS Dev - 23/10/06 at 02:11 PM

cheers

LOL!!!

Thanks for posting that, it shows exactly what I was hoping!!!!!!

over 72% of max engine torque available anywhere from tickover to rev limiter........that is torque spread!

Coose - 23/10/06 at 02:17 PM

Right, if the rear cam cover has a breather, then that's the TLS motor that you want. The later one also has a bigger output shaft and bearing. Gear ratios throughout the models are the same.

From 99 onwards the TLS and TLR motors are the same except for the oil cooling tappings, where the R can be easily modifed to allow for an oil cooler, as per the S. Basically, you drill and tap out the unmachined bosses and block the oil gallery to divert the oil through the oil cooler, which can be reversed just as easily.

He says to look out for broken crankcases and spun shells (including R motors if run low on oil)....

The Rs have twin injectors, so that's one way of telling an R from an S.

You'll have to do a search for actual gear ratios as he's not sure off hand.

He really wouldn't recommend grass tracking a TL - he knows someone who is slowly collecting a series of blown motors out of a grasser due to broken gearboxes....

What about an Aprilia RSV - they're dry sumped too?

Coose - 23/10/06 at 02:21 PM

Try http://www.tlzone.net/forums/homepage.php too for more info....

NS Dev - 23/10/06 at 02:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Coose
Right, if the rear cam cover has a breather, then that's the TLS motor that you want. The later one also has a bigger output shaft and bearing. Gear ratios throughout the models are the same.

From 99 onwards the TLS and TLR motors are the same except for the oil cooling tappings, where the R can be easily modifed to allow for an oil cooler, as per the S. Basically, you drill and tap out the unmachined bosses and block the oil gallery to divert the oil through the oil cooler, which can be reversed just as easily.

He says to look out for broken crankcases and spun shells (including R motors if run low on oil)....

The Rs have twin injectors, so that's one way of telling an R from an S.

You'll have to do a search for actual gear ratios as he's not sure off hand.

He really wouldn't recommend grass tracking a TL - he knows someone who is slowly collecting a series of blown motors out of a grasser due to broken gearboxes....

What about an Aprilia RSV - they're dry sumped too?


Hmmm, interesting. I have heard of a few Aprilia motors for sale s/h too. Never knew they were dry sump as std! That is interesting.

Are they reliable? I was pointed towards the TL because the engine was reliable, but never asked or was told anything gearbox wise, other than recently hearing a lot about broken gearboxes. This isn't good as the startline will absolutely hammer the box!!!

Does the aprilia run injection or carbs?

Got me thinking the RSV might be the option then..........so next question, where might I find out the same info for one of those, bearing in mind I am a total bike numpty!

Coose - 23/10/06 at 02:31 PM

The Aprilia is injection, and the early ones (pre-99 maybe?) had a weaker clutch. There'll be an RSV forum somewhere I'm sure....

That's about all I can tell you about them, except that they already have a hydraulic clutch (TLs don't) and they make lots of power and good, flat torque!

Coose - 23/10/06 at 02:34 PM

Aprilia RSV forum here.

And TLRs have a hydraulic clutch, TLSs don't, but can be easily converted - I stand corrected!

After all of this info, you need to be buying your bike manuals on cd from the man who gave you most of this - www.fiche-man.com!

[Edited on 23/10/06 by Coose]

pathfinder - 23/10/06 at 05:15 PM

NS Dev

I had to choose between TL or RSV power and went for the Aprilia. You get so much more bang for your buck. As said early clutches where a week point but apart from that it’s a fairly indestructible motor (Rotax designed it so not as dodgy as a Duke)!

I have been thinking of getting into auto grass once this project is complete can you point me in the direction of some good websites and build sites!

Best of luck

Thom

NS Dev - 24/10/06 at 06:30 AM

cheers folks, all recommendations taken on board, looks like it'll be aprilia then!

If you don't mind me asking Thom, how much did you pay for yours, and do you know a good source?

Are you running std injection ECU + loom on it?