Not sure what to do, I want more torque and BHP, I currently have a brand new pinto 2.0 (205 block) running bake carbs and weber alpha ECU putting out 140ish bhp.

Simply put it's not enough, I'm after 180-200 bhp, the two options I have are:

1. more power from current engine, but it gets costly very quickly and becomes more of a race engine than for road use.

2. change the engine (however, selection is limited due to car body work and engine bay layout I have to stick with exhausts exiting on the drivers side!), the obvious option is Duratec, I can keep existing g/box, get new bell housing and convert to hydraulic clutch (so £400 on top of cost of engine :-( ) I'd probably need another ECU & then may as well go for TB's.

Any other engine suggestions? And bike is not an option, I want torque not just BHP at 10000rpm

The Duratec option is the way to go... well over 200bhp very easy to achieve indeed.

Althouth its obviously not very locost it should be worth the initial outlay.

NOS!!!!




Ray

Get yourself a "Dave Brooks" modified Pinto head with race camshaft. Your present bottom end will be fine as long as you set a sensible rev limit of say 7400rpm, and replace with K-max or ARP rod bolts. You'll need carbs with a choke area of at least 38mm (what size is currently fitted?), set up on a rolling-road. You'll also need an 4-1 exhaust system with at least 1 3/4" 45mm primaries of around 30" length. You may already have this. This will still give a torquey road driveable motor, but with massive midrange and top-end gains.

Dave Brooks has forgotten more about Pinto tuning than some other so-called tuners ever knew. The head will not be cheap, but MUCH cheaper than fitting a Duratec of similar horsepower.

And you don't even need to take your engine out

Search the web for Dave Brooks Engines. He's in Crewe Cheshire.

Cheers Chris.

[Edited on 30/1/07 by Memphis Twin]

I think that you should do a search on bike engines and torque for BECS

quote:

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Originally posted by Memphis Twin
... You'll need carbs with a choke area of at least 38mm (what size is currently fitted?), set up on a rolling-road. You'll also need an 4-1 exhaust system with at least 1 3/4" 45mm primaries of around 30" length.......

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Vauxhall XE engine??

I know I am always mentioning it but 200ish hp straight out of the box, off the shelf bellhousing cheaper than a duratec one, base engine is effectively free if you do it right (my last one was) then you can spend the cash on throttle bodies etc.

NS Dev, more than happy to consider an XE, I know they are powerful and cheap which is what I need (I know you are always banging on about them ), but which side does the exhaust exit as it's a constraint on engine choice?

ps are all Vaxhall engines the same bellhouse pattern?

[Edited on 30/1/07 by se7ensport]

An XE would be on the passenger side of the car i'm afraid, think there's only the Pinto and the Duratec I can think of with them on the drivers side.

Am tranna picture it..to be a drivers side exit it'd either have to already be RWD and on the correct side.. or a FWD car with the gear box on the drivers side and the exhaust coming out of the front of the engine? Hmmm

There any chance of a V6 or V8 in there, then you'd have an exhaust both sides

quote:

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Originally posted by Memphis Twin
Get yourself a "Dave Brooks" modified Pinto head with race camshaft. Your present bottom end will be fine as long as you set a sensible rev limit of say 7400rpm, and replace with K-max or ARP rod bolts. You'll need carbs with a choke area of at least 38mm (what size is currently fitted?), set up on a rolling-road. You'll also need an 4-1 exhaust system with at least 1 3/4" 45mm primaries of around 30" length. You may already have this. This will still give a torquey road driveable motor, but with massive midrange and top-end gains.

Dave Brooks has forgotten more about Pinto tuning than some other so-called tuners ever knew. The head will not be cheap, but MUCH cheaper than fitting a Duratec of similar horsepower.

And you don't even need to take your engine out

Search the web for Dave Brooks Engines. He's in Crewe Cheshire.

Cheers Chris.

[Edited on 30/1/07 by Memphis Twin]

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turbo ?

bmw , jap , volvo all exit on the right exhaust wise

I'd happily mod the pinto for the time being as it will save a lot of ball ache I could do without, my big concern is that while 180 flywheel 150 wheels is achievable it would all be top end and limit the driveablity.


Cheers

Alex

A Puma Zetec? Their exhaust exits on the drivers side, plus you have the added bonus that they were designed by Yamaha!

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Originally posted by Volvorsport
turbo ?

bmw , jap , volvo all exit on the right exhaust wise

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quote:

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Originally posted by mookaloid

quote:

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Originally posted by Memphis Twin
Get yourself a "Dave Brooks" modified Pinto head with race camshaft. Your present bottom end will be fine as long as you set a sensible rev limit of say 7400rpm, and replace with K-max or ARP rod bolts. You'll need carbs with a choke area of at least 38mm (what size is currently fitted?), set up on a rolling-road. You'll also need an 4-1 exhaust system with at least 1 3/4" 45mm primaries of around 30" length. You may already have this. This will still give a torquey road driveable motor, but with massive midrange and top-end gains.

Dave Brooks has forgotten more about Pinto tuning than some other so-called tuners ever knew. The head will not be cheap, but MUCH cheaper than fitting a Duratec of similar horsepower.

And you don't even need to take your engine out

Search the web for Dave Brooks Engines. He's in Crewe Cheshire.

Cheers Chris.

[Edited on 30/1/07 by Memphis Twin]

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I'm running a similar spec Pinto to this giving about 150BHP at the wheels and it's ok pootling about too

If I recall the head work cost me about £350

Much cheaper than a duratec and pulls really well.

Video indy here

Cheers

Mark

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Super charger, whats the pro's and cons, any one know.

[Edited on 30/1/07 by roadrunner]

Supercharger.....

Pro's

- no turbo lag
- constant power hike (unlike NOS) without need for capacity increase
- often quite linear power increases (unlike crazy boost turbo)

Cons

- heat inlet charge (so may need intercooler, water spray, decompression plates etc to stop detonation)
- turning the supercharger takes up power (in the 10s of HP)...
- s/c kits aren't as widely available as turbo conversions for most engines
- blow through systems often require changing the carbs / throttle bodies (most aren't designed for forced induction), changing to suck-through requires a new carb / body in most cases
- DIY supercharger setup can get quite costly (especially when you're learning as you go), you might be better off going for a known route to known power (e.g. turbo, engine swap etc).

It's probably not the easiest route to more power. But the whine of a supercharger and the knowledge that it's DIY is attractive....

You could of course wack in a VX and repanel the side of the car (quicker than doing a DIY supercharger installation!!!)...

volvo engine is no heavier than pinto , and its 2.3 . its not popular because people dont know about it .

rotary engine would be a neat idea tho , definitely fit under the hood .

quote:

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Originally posted by Volvorsport
volvo engine is no heavier than pinto , and its 2.3 . its not popular because people dont know about it .

rotary engine would be a neat idea tho , definitely fit under the hood .

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Hi by going duratec you will also be loosing anawfull lot of weight from the front end compared to the pinto which will also improve the front end handeling on a light weight car like yours.

A bit of reasearch on the kits the northern agent for RAW STRIKER are doing as they are fitting noble motorsport supplied duratecs to thier cars so all the bits and problems for your aplication should be sorted as there isnt that much difference between the two chassis and setup.

cheers matt

quote:

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Originally posted by Memphis Twin

quote:

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Originally posted by Volvorsport
volvo engine is no heavier than pinto , and its 2.3 . its not popular because people dont know about it .

rotary engine would be a neat idea tho , definitely fit under the hood .

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I'm a big fan of the Volvo B23 and B230 engines. Big valves, great porting (especially the B230k) and strong bottom end. Cam actuated by buckets and shims, not some archaic rocker, and easily bored to 2.5 litres.

That's got me thinking

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quote:

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Originally posted by Memphis Twin
A friend of mine installed an "SP Performance" race head on his 2.1 Pinto witha Kent RC31 (i think) cam and 48 Dellortos into his hillclimb/sprint Westfield. His power output in the same car, on the same (accurate) rollers as before went from 140 ish at the wheels to 182bhp at the wheels. His rev limit was 7000rpm, but rarely needed to rev that high as maximum power was at 6700.

His time at Harewood hillclimb dropped from a pb of 69secs to 66secs, instantly. These are no-bullshit, tangible,recorded results.

I believe he got his times down even further, and most of the course was completed in 3rd gear; such was the midrange torque. The Dave Brooks head is, if anything, even better. It's the head that's important on a Pinto- the bottom end just has to hang together!

Cheers Chris.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Volvorsport
it should settle in at around 500 hp and 600 nm

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yeah , turboed, 2 bar boost .

16v versions can go a bit further .

the t4/t5 engine should be popular , but there fwd units and gave much the same problems as another ford motor et al .

gearbox adapters are available from sweden to fit the getrag box onto all of them .

quote:

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Originally posted by Volvorsport
gearbox adapters are available from sweden to fit the getrag box onto all of them .

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£130

Doesn't seem too bad at all, are the Getrag boxes easily available?

most of them come from the big 6 engine - with or without integral bellhousing .

have a look on ebay !! , i think e30, e34 , e12 , and e28 have the big six engines without integral bellhousing .

Also the Volvo 960 gearboxes (RWD) are a direct bolton for the early aluminium Volvo engines (4, 5 or 6 cyl.). Manual trannies can be rare though...
The old red iron block engines can be made to work amazingly NA with the correct mods... How about 204 kW@7140 and 296 Nm@6100 from a 2.4 l B21...
UNITEK 2.4 B21
Not exactly locost but not overly expensive either.

oh good , someone else who agrees .

and i know about the whiteblock manual trannies , i keep getting asked to supply them to the states !!!


theyre a bit wide for a normal locost though , and ratios arent as good as a getrag , hence the reason why i went getrag initially .

theres no reason why you cant just stump up £1400 for an M90 at a volvo dealer tho!! , bung a sachs clutch and be good to go .

ive always known how good the b23/b23 is and how much power it can make - thats not the full story in locost of course .

quote:

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Originally posted by sebastiaan

quote:

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Originally posted by Memphis Twin
A friend of mine installed an "SP Performance" race head on his 2.1 Pinto witha Kent RC31 (i think) cam and 48 Dellortos into his hillclimb/sprint Westfield. His power output in the same car, on the same (accurate) rollers as before went from 140 ish at the wheels to 182bhp at the wheels. His rev limit was 7000rpm, but rarely needed to rev that high as maximum power was at 6700.

His time at Harewood hillclimb dropped from a pb of 69secs to 66secs, instantly. These are no-bullshit, tangible,recorded results.

I believe he got his times down even further, and most of the course was completed in 3rd gear; such was the midrange torque. The Dave Brooks head is, if anything, even better. It's the head that's important on a Pinto- the bottom end just has to hang together!

Cheers Chris.

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182BHP at the wheels would be around 182*1.15=209BHP=154kW at the crank. To get to that power at 6700RPM, the engine would have to put out 154000/(2*pi*(6700/60))=220Nm (or 162 lb.ft)

Seems improbable to me, since modern (direct injection, variable cam timing, variable inlet manifolds) only just get to these figures at lower engine speeds. In other words: that's a LOT of air to flow through a 2 valve head...

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Obvious answer surely is Cossie power??

Pinto-based block so same mounts etc.

Just need to squeeze in the turbo running gear...

wut about going to Audi? 1.8 turbo 20v or the 2.0 liter tFSI without the FSI part. the exhaust is on the right hand side.

plus plenty of power