Has anyone heard of one? I have a 1.7 tdi engine in a citroen bx that is about ready for taking of the road. Does any one know of a RWD gearbox that takes the citroen diesel engine without to much hassle. The reason for wanting to use this engine is that its not very old,not many miles, does 40+ MPG and is very nippy and powerful
cheers PHIL....

I've been playing with the idea of using a TD engine in mine, mainly as a cheaper mode of transport to and from work. I'd planned to use either a VAG TD or a Rover TD. Both power medium sized cars yet still return 55mpg combined with approx 10s 0-60's, think what that'll be in a locost! Fitting kits are available for these engines to fit sierra rwd gearboxes but I don't know how much it would be. you may have to make up your own plate to fit engine and gearbox together. Would suggest getting hold of cheap sierra gearbox and seeing what mods you reckon you need to do. Do some digging into gear ratios too so you get the best performance and torque from your application. Sorry cant help further.

Dunc.

Thanks dunc, suppose you dont know of an address for anyone that makes the adaptor plates, or has any plans for them. Will the sierra gearbox fit in to the locost frame without modification? cheers PHIL...

Try these peeps, http://www.kennedyeng.com/
I know they r usa but ship worldwide, There is another Co that r in the UK but cant rem there name but thet advertise in car and conversions mag, I will post it if I remember them.

Pabs

The bell housing on a sierra box is quite large so you can either widen the transmission tunnel, reducing the footwell space. moving the engine and gearbox forward will clear the chassis but may interfere with the front chassis members. You'll need to measure your engine. I had a flyer from a engine conversion specialist, I'll look it out and post the address. bol.

Dunc.

Hello, i just registered to reply to this post !

Way back in the early 90's some guy put a Ford 1.8 turbo diesel in a westfield, and Autocar tested it, in fact I still have the review somewhere, anyway they said torque and performance was fantastic, or something similar.

Just thought you may be interested !

Cheers for now.

Scott

Scott,
you will stay now you've joined won't you

I expect I will, although i'm not building a locost but a Robin Hood for my sins.

Please don't look down on me

Scott

Hi Phil - Like you I am looking for a way to convert a Citroen diesel to rwd, but havn't found one yet. I'm posting to suggest an Astra diesel engine on a Sierra (petrol) gearbox. You can get a mating bell housing from 'SBD Developments' www.sbdev.co.uk, 0208 391 0121. It costs around £190. If you find an answer to the Citroen diesel question I'd appreciate it if you would drop me a line. Cheers, Rex (rpm@abacus-tp.co.uk)

If you are up to building your own chassis then you are more than capable of making your own adapter plate,.........
3mm plate bolted to engine, hole in middle for clutch ect....., 3mm plate bolted to gearbox, same hole, fit clutch, offer gearbox up to engine, gap between plates, usually 1" to 2" fill with flat bar, iv'e made a fair few this way, Rover V8 to Audi, Cosworth to VW, all worked fine under grasstrack racing conditions so more than up to road work, drop me an e~mail if you want me to talk you through how its done. Jon

just to let you know that i've been told that a FSO polonez was made about 5-8 years ago fitted with a
citroen/pugeot diesel engine that was rear wheel drive, haven't seen any scrappers, but then i've only seen 1 on the road. At least its a starting point.
Jon ,
thanks for the tip, may go down that road if all else fails,may be you could e-mail a sketch just to make sure i'm on the same wavelength.
CHEERS BOYS
PHIL........

Just a quick thought on the same lines. What about the rwd box on a Peugeot 505 - I wonder if this would fit the current peugeot/citroen diesels? 505s are a bit thin on the ground these days, but probably easier to find than a dead Polonez.
However for my own project I think I'll pass on hybrid units and just try to find an ex-Ford P100 1800cc TD c/w box then slap the whole thing in!

Hi Folks.

I just registered too, so I could reply to this thread.

I used to own a TD Locost (now sadly sold), which used the Sierra/Mondeo 1.8 TD engine on a type 9 gearbox. It's well worth the effort to do, as it creats a beast of a car with frightening acceleration.... (upset a Caterham this way once ).

I'd recommend staying with the Fraud lump, but if you really want to use the PSA, them the 1905cc TD from the peugeot will mate to the Rover LT77 via a bellhousing from a LDV 200/Pilot van.

Dave
V8 Dax Rush

Cheers dave,
having never had anything to do with BL/ROVER cars,could you tell me what i'd find a lt77 g/box in and what year and model pilot am i looking for.
many thanks.

You'd find an LT77 hiding behind any Rover SD1, with either the 2.0 four pot, the 2.3/2.6 straight sixes, and the V8. My choice would either be the (rare) 2.0, or a V8 (the V8 only revs to 5k, so it's got a similar upper rev limit as the diesel). LT77 were also fitted to alsorts of others like Land Rovers and LDV vans, but they aren't worth the hassle to convert to 2wd/car use.

As to the van, it was 1992/J onwards. You'll need the bellhousing, and clutch operating arm.

Dave

Thanx to Fatboy Dave for info about Mondeo TD but (excuse abysmal ignorance) where do you find a 'type 9' box please?

Cheers, Rex

Inside evry five speed Sierra made between about 1983 and 1990-ish. After this, the Sierra used a lightweight ali case MT75 gearbox that doesn't fit seven-esque cars without some pretty hairy modifications (remove remote shift housing and cut down etc.).

Dave, just curious as I would like to fit a TD into my locost as the main 'get me to work and back cheaply'. What was your estimated MPG for your TD locost before to parted with it?

Dunc.

Dunc,

I was getting roughly 55mpg when cruising (quickly!), and just generally hacking around gave me high 40s.

Worst I ever saw was a calculated 37mpg on a hard 50 mile thrash (redlining and hitting the governor in almost every gear). That was pretty hairy going.

I never thought id say it but Deisel seems a good idea, How much are Mondeo Deisel engines?

Quite expensive sadly. About #300 for a Mondeo engine. They are also used in the Sierra, Escort and Fiesta, so get hold of a copy of the Ford 1800D Haynes manual before you buy anything and get familiar with the engine codes, and stay away from non-turbo engines.

Apart from that, still not a bad setup.

Dave

Thanks Dave. Mondeo/Fiesta turbo diesel on a Sierra cast iron box looks like the way to go for me. Thanks for the info. The hunt is on...

No problem. You can use the turbo Escort engine too.

Just remember to route the exhaust up to the back of the car though, and remember that in convoys, you'll probably be tail end charlie, as no one likes chewing diesel fumes (wasn't a problem for me, as the awesome low down torque had me up the back of all but the V8s out of roundabouts )

Dave

noticed that someone was looking for a fso with a peugeot engine
today's derby ad mag has one in at £200 on an M plate

the number listed is 0776 1229015

I spotted a 2.3lt Diesel Sierra the other day. What are these engines like? I'm not planning on using Diesel particularly but as it's the first one I've noticed I guess it's quite rare maybe?

James

The 2.3 N/A Ford Diesel is a big, heavy, laggy, underpowered slug of a powerplant. If you wanna fit a Diesel, fit a turbo-diesel, you'll regret it if you don't

(I once drove a 2.3 D Sierra, never again...)

No. No no no no no no no no. NO!

That horrible, wheezng Peugeot 2.3 lump is awful. Made of cast iron it weighs a ton, produces a whopping 63bhp, and doesn't even have a turbo. It also makes enough noise to wake the dead.

What you could do though, because the 2.3D Sierra was a s desirable as stinging nettle underpants and about as usefull as a donor, is buy it for the diesel spec gearbox and differential, as you need to choose these with care if you are getting them out of a petrol car (the diff has to have roughly a 3.09:1 ratio)

Dave

As I said I've no desire particularly for a diesel- if nothing else I'm a bit dubious about the health implications for diesel emissions- what with them being carcinogenic and all. I may be wrong but aren't they meant to give out some pretty nasty fumes compared to petrol engines (not that they're good- just not quite as bad!). I guess modern Diesel's from the likes of BMW and VW are a lot better though maybe?

Why would the 2.3D gearbox be better though? Just because of the ratio or something else?

James

They are, they're bl**dy lethal the fumes. It's all the cetane, and the fact that the third most cancerous compand known to man is found in diesel fumes (3nitrobenzantrone IIRC, but it's probably wrong).

As for the diesel box, yes, it's purely for the ratios. No point buying the first gearbox that comes along if the ratios are wrong for the engine. Sierras/Sierra parts are two a penny, and it's no real hardship turning stuff down.

Dave

Well boys , just got myself an FSO g/box from the scrappies today, looks like it will fit on to the citroen tdi no prob.Even the citroen clutch plate fits the FSO splines.The only problem at the mo is that the output flange is of the rubber doughnut type (fixed, non sliding), like the older fiats & lada i think. The question is what type of propshaft layout do i use?, do i use the doughnut instead of a u/joint. all ideas welcome
cheers PHIL'''''''''

quote:

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I've been playing with the idea of using a TD engine in mine, mainly as a cheaper mode of transport to and from work. I'd planned to use either a VAG TD or a Rover TD. Both power medium sized cars yet still return 55mpg combined with approx 10s 0-60's, think what that'll be in a locost!

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As for fumes and running costs you should also look into running your car on biodiesel
very very cheap and easy to make and has none of that carcanagenic crap from petrolium diesel

have a look on http://www.veggievan.org/
the book from there is highly recommended (i got mine from amazon.co.uk)

Is this stuff legal as no taxes are payed?
What are the ministry likely to say if used on public highway?
Col.

It's a grey area biggfer than Johnnie Major.

Technically, *any* fuel that can propel a vehicle on the highway is liable to duty, even if you have a car that can run on tap water.

However, actually, trying to pay duty that isn't automatically collected at the pumps is almost impossible....

When i get it running ok and get a respectable speed from it , i just might have a look now you've put that idea in my head.. cheers phil...........

One of the early comments was about using a VAG diesel.
I consiously chose a diesel a few months back having had 330 BMW's, 2.5 Vectra's ./ . .

I have a Golf 150bhp diesel GTi , and it's faster than their 150bhp petrol GTI, with a 0-60 of around 8.5 (however the petrol is in 2nd I'm already in 3rd. Six speed box. I also get 236 lbft torque (more than Boxter S), lower tax and insurance and a combined mpg of 54.

So, I am a diesel convert and would recommend it. Mind you, when did common sense fit into a forum about makign a car from piles of steel?

you can pay duty on your biodiesel now and its at a reduced rate of 21p/liter

plus you wouldnt have to pay any tax on your fuel for use on the track

Phil, Hows the conversion Going ? I' want to fit my Rickman with a Ciroen TDi Lump so I am very interested in how this is going. Out of interest Does the FSO Gearbox have a un-boltable bell housing or is it integral to the Gearbox ? - I'm wondering if I could make an adapter plate to fit between the FSO bell housing and the T-9 box, thus solving the Prop problem

quote:

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Originally posted by phil
Well boys , just got myself an FSO g/box from the scrappies today, looks like it will fit on to the citroen tdi no prob.Even the citroen clutch plate fits the FSO splines.The only problem at the mo is that the output flange is of the rubber doughnut type (fixed, non sliding), like the older fiats & lada i think. The question is what type of propshaft layout do i use?, do i use the doughnut instead of a u/joint. all ideas welcome
cheers PHIL'''''''''

---

Hi B@man,
Thanks for asking,the locost TDI is going quite well at the mo. Yes the bellhousing is removable from the FSO g/box, so you may be able to fit another box of your choice. I've decieded to keep the box for the moment as it looks quite good and has good ratios for the TDI & escort diff. The propshaft was easy to shorten and all i had to do was make a mounting for the centre bearing in the trans tunnel,both sections were shortened and i've retained the output doughnut, mounting the center bearing at the correct height to keep the front section of the shaft level.
As the TDI was mounted at a slight angle the g/box also sits at a slight tilt(should not be a problem). As mentioned earlier the BX clutch plate fits the g/box splines
but i will need to make another spigott bearing as the shaft is smaller than the f/wheel brg on the TDI. Also had to make a remote gear linkage (because the lever was under the scuttle). Hope you understand all this waffling and that it may be some use to you.
regards Phil.........

I know I've joined this posting a little late, but I drive a diesel, by choice and would recommend it to anyone. 1 proviso, get a high pressure version , ie BMW 330D, or VAG 1.9 TDi (my one).
150bhp / 236 lb ft. Forget LPG. Yes it is much cheeper than diesel, but it gives less mpg than petrol.

One downside of a diesel is the low revving ability. It may have more torque than a petrol engine but by the time it goes through the higher gearing the torque at the wheels could be much lower. I do agree that they are definately worth looking into but the german variants are expensive, I've been looking at the rover TD, equivalent in performance and MPG to the VAG's but cheaper and quite possibly lighter.

Phil, Thanks for the Response, I think the TD option will have to wait on cost grounds, I found a FSO gearbox but the yard want £150 ex VAT for it and the cheapest I could find a TDi engine was £500 exvat, for that outlay I can probably rebuild the complete car !

I nearly had a Ford (yuk!) Sierra TD engine yesterday, the complete car was going for £200, but sadly someone had tried to fit mondeo Injector pipes in the wrong order so It would'nt run !

So the current plan is to stick with the 1800 pinto (if it will start after 3 years of being stood near the coast).

There is another gearbox that will fit the Pug/Citroen TDI engine. Its the R380 gearbox which is fitted to the latest Ley/Daf 200 vans, they have an n/a Pug motor as standard.

quote:

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Forget LPG. Yes it is much cheeper than diesel, but it gives less mpg than petrol.

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Re LPG.

OK it's cheap now, but once it catches on in a big do you think the government will keep the duty on LPG fixed ?. When Diesels where not as common there was a lot less duty on the fuel than there is now. As soon as the is a large number of LPG powered cars on the roads the government will have no option but to increase tax on LPG if only to offset the losses made in the decline of unleaded sales. I suppose the only way to know is to wait see.

Meanwhile I'm going to safeway's to fill my TD mondeo with sunflower oil.....

Yup, you're probably right, LPG price hike are almost inevitable. One of the reasons duty is so low at the moment is because the present government are committed to cutting green house gasses and LPG is one cheap and painless way for the government to be seen to be doing that. It wont last, as you quite rightly point out but I intend to make hay whilst the sun shines.

quote:

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Originally posted by paulbeyer
Yup, you're probably right, LPG price hike are almost inevitable. One of the reasons duty is so low at the moment is because the present government are committed to cutting green house gasses and LPG is one cheap and painless way for the government to be seen to be doing that. It wont last, as you quite rightly point out but I intend to make hay whilst the sun shines.

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quote:

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Can't see how LPG reduces greenhouse gases.

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quote:

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I intend to make hay whilst the sun shines.

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quote:

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Originally posted by phil
but don't the profesional hay makers run their machines on stuff called diesel???
regards phil....

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so can i put cooking oil in my space heater?it will smell nicer than derv and be a lot cheaper,seen the price of parafin!!!!!

Red diesel has no tax on it, do you know a friendly farmer?

John

quote:

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Originally posted by theconrodkid
so can i put cooking oil in my space heater?it will smell nicer than derv and be a lot cheaper,seen the price of parafin!!!!!

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Oh my god what have I started !

1/I have never met a freindly farmer.
2/with the smell of food in the air do you think i would get any work done?
John eating for victory.

can u not buy red at the pump over there u can over here and most garages dont even think its weird that u dont have to take your jerry cans out of your car to fill them

ps ive got a petrol car if any customs and exise people are reading

Cn anyone here tell me if the 1.8 or 2.3D Sierria engine fitts the 1.8CVH Gearbox

I could be wrong here but AFAIK the 2.3 Boat anchor (don't use it !) has a different bell housing and a longer input shaft than the petrol Type 9 boxes. The 1800 Diesel will bolt up to a normal Type 9 box. The diesel clutch is not the same as the Pinto one but it may be similar to the CVH one.

Also while on the subject the 1800 TD motor is heavy, around 120 Kg, We tried lifting one out of a van last weekend and both of us have had back ache since !