Hello my little ones,

I have a problem(no, not that one)

My Engine won't run!!!!

Boo hoo etc....

OK, it's a 2 litre Pinto, with a 32/36 DGAV

It will start,reluctantly, but it dies after about 10 seconds.

The Ignition is all new and checks out with the multi-meter, which, to me points to a fuel problem.

Any ideas lads???

Cheers

Chris

Crap engine?

Tosser

Oh dear.

Tried blowing the lines through? Filters clean? Pump working?

Does the ignition spark? Buzzing it with the meter isn't any cop, what kind of spark have you got? voltage to the coil?

Air leaks?

More info please!

So my non pisstake with a basis in fact has been dismissed as wrong?

Good spark at all plugs
New pump with plenty of fuel at the carb
12v at the coil, on the ballast resistor
Don't know about air leaks, none obvious

Have a think Dave!

Cheers

Chris

Had a similar problem with an 1800 SOHC, the rubber pickup tube on the sender unit was squashed on the bottom of the tank thus limiting the quantity of fuel being drawn to the pump - might be worth checking?!

Bugger that, I'm off to bed

Air leak is the prime suspect here. Did the carb belong to the egine, or have you fitted it?

Ignition timing? You'd get flames out of the carb though.

I'll reply in the morning when I'm not half asleep......

Righty then, assuming you've checked the things I mentionned above, I'm stumped. I just waffled on about ballast resistors, but deleted it because I remember you said you had healthy sparks.

Have you whipped the fuel line off and checked for fuel? (Into a jug?) I won't bore you with the hours spent wasted on a Hillman Imp when I thought there was fuel at the engine, only to realise it was just the dregs dribbling out when I loosened the union, and the tank was infact, bone dry.....

Apart from that, I'm stumped. Did the engine run before you fitted it to the Locost?


Air leaks won't be obvious, tinyest of leaks can stop an engine from running. A small piece of pipe stuck in your ear and held around the manifold-head joint and carb-manifold joint would help you determine any leaks.

Right, unfortunately, that's me out of ideas

P.S. Will it be persuaded to run if you floor the gas?

The fuel lines seem a likely candidate, are they new? I’ve had a problem on two occasions where the rubber hoses appeared to be in good nick but have turned out to have collapsed internally and would only let very small amounts of fuel through and even less when the was a real load on the line.

Thanks for the replys chaps,

Checked the fuel sytem all through from the tank to the carb, and it's fine - a good squirt every second revolution, just as it says in the book - it won't start at all now!!!

The engine and carb came with the donor and it ran fine before I filletted it.

it may be just me but maybe it's not turning over as fast as it might on the starter, It's a new battery and starter motor.

I'm stumped

I'm going to try another carb

Cheers

Chris

Could be a bad earth you know, it's a two minute check to see (healthy spark on a plug held against the engine is different to getting one under load).

Failing that, what have you got in the tank? Unleaded of 4*? Unleaded turns to jelly and blocks jets if you leave it, giving the trouble you describe. Normally a good hose-out of cyclo-clean or carb cleaner (or stripping and replacing the jets if it's real bad) will probably sort it.

Also, when you crank an engine for elongated periods, you tend to get a fair bit of fuel (and ignition advance, more of that later) built up, again, pointing to dodgy ignition if the fuel ain't being burnt).

On advance, are you sure you wired it up OK? Is it point or electronic? I've grown sick of stuck V8 bob-weights making the engines hard to crank, because the ignition is over advanced (as the piston is trying to come up on compression, it gets knocked down again by the spark igniting the charge, making it crank slowly).

Just a few more things to try.......

Hello Dave,

I'm going to put another earth on it tomorrow, but the wires aren't getting hot so I don't think it's that.

It's got LRP in it but it's only been in about two weeks, so......

It's points ignition - I'll check the bob weights tomorrow.

Thanks for your help Dave, I'll keep you informed!

Cheers

Chris

Cheers Chris.

I hate knowing there's an engine out there I couldn't get going

I'd appreciate knowing if it is the carb (beginning to think so now)

has your carb got a fuel return changed a 32/36 on my mk1 escy once wouldnt run right cos the one i added had a return pipe which i just blocked (must have put to much pressure in the float chamber or something) so i just put a tee into the fuel feed and put the return pie into it.

p.s.i work for the q.h. distributors in n.i. check your pump they can be faulty new rare but does happen

and finally... a quick way to check for air leaks is to spray wd40 onto diffrent parts of the inlet system and listen to the revs (wd40 stops the air getting in for a moment) do it bit at a time and you can pin point a leak.

OI Chris you got the fuel pipes the right way round?

Try swapping wires on the coil

or talkin of coils make sure u've got a ballast resistor on if its on the original car i had one on an old fiesta that nobody new existed (not even ford mechanics) it looked just like a heavy wire that was buried in the loom.

we relised wot it was cos my da is a boat mechanic and some of the mercruiser in board engines used them

Ah ha Johnston,

You may have something there!

Spoke to Local engine guru, and he rekons it's definately the ballast resistor thats broken down internally.

Been trying to pick one up for the last few days - no luck. Any ideas where to get one? I've tried Ford Dealers(they laughed) Local motor factors, Halfords (don't know why) and Tesco

Cheers

Chris

(Got some beer in Tesco to cheer myself up!!)

So then, my rambling piece about ballast resistors and resistance wire that I deleted was just about there then? Bugger

Try Halfwits, they had one on the shelf. Try Lucas P/N SCB400. Has a load of Fords listed on the box, from 2.5 V6 Mk1 Grannies, through to Valencia Escorts.

Failing that, try a Lucas service centre.

What loom have you used BTW?

if its the wire type one like was on mine try your local boat (if ur near a coast) some of the mercruser engines are marinised fords i think there the v6s not sure (i was only a wee nipper last time i was messin wit 1) but any guy worth his salt will no

Just put a standard(non resisted)coil on and ignore the resistor.

uif your running points that can burn them out real quick (been there done that)

I think I've sussed it and it's not good news

The engine is "tight" i.e. it is binding and won't turn over very well.

The stupid engine builder(me)must have made a mistake.

I'm going to keep turning it over - see if it loosens off - if not it looks like another short engine.

B*LL*CKS

Cheers

Chris

But why would a tight engine run for a while and then stop? if its seizing that would be fairly permanent after the first go?

I heard stories from my motor mechanic grandad years ago about cars being towed to loosen the engine....but thats dark ages.

Drop some oil down the bores and see if it spins more freely?

Are you sure its not flooding - look at the plugs.

If the floats not seating, then it will overflow the chamber and stop.

For the resistor, just check with a voltmeter at the coil and if you get it running watch and see if it drops away. you should always have volts on the non CB side.


atb

Steve

My engine is from the dark ages!

Tried the oil down the bores - no luck

I think it started and then as it warmed up the clearances have closed stopping it.

Steve, mate, If i could get it running would!!

Cheers

Chris

(well pissed off)

basically then its heat seizing witout very much heat????mmmm

instead of the new short motor why dont u get it reborred by a few more thou

I could do that but it may be the crank or big end bearings, it's probably easier to get a new block - anybody got one?

Cheers

Chris

yeah, heat seizing without a lotta heat is weird.

So, once it stops, trying to turn the crank with a spanner finds it seized?

If your engines basically trash, why not go for it and start it up one more time with some 2 stroke oil in the petrol for extra lube and keep the revs up. if it comprehensively siezes, then you will know!

did you try and turn the crank? this sounds so weird.


When my last co car was new it ran so bad in the first 20 miles i nearly drive it right back but it cleared. they all did that i was told and the car never makes full power, according to mfr, until about 6k! Maxda 323 xzi V6 2 litre.

atb

steve

do you still get a spark once it spins - even so it could be the coil breaking down...try another?

yeah the spark and fuel are good but it is very tight to turn with a spanner, I'm trying to start it but it won't have it now

If it starts again I'm going to rev the balls off it and try to loosen it up.

Have a look in the corner of the garage guys - no pinto blocks there are there?

Cheers

Chris

Chris, reading through this thread it seems you have rebuilt this engine since it last ran. Are you absolutely certain that the cam timing is right??? Not a notch or two out is it?

John

Hi John,

It has run since the rebuild and i've checked the timing four times now.

Bugger

Cheers

Chris

try ian harwood usually has a load of blocks for sale

wouldnt think it would be bearings they would normally turn in the housings

Chris :

Another radical idea (it works on robot wars!).

Might cost you a visit to the breakers for a new starter motor after tho....

Perhaps engine isnt firing cos its not getting the speed from the motor.

Try TWO 12v batteries in series to the MOTOR ONLY!. That should give you a lot more oomph to get it spinning and hopefully fire. Quick start spray might also encourage it to pick up.


Have a bucket of water ready in case you get fire no 3......


atb

steve

Chris,

if you rebuilt it yourself, have you had the main bearing caps off? It's possible you could have got the thrust washers in incorrectly (seized a pinto once doing this. Fortunately, the engine was still on the stand at the time).

Whatever you do, don't just rev the nutsack off it if it does start, you'll just throw a rod that way......

Yeah the engines been down to the last nut and bolt, so i'm going to drop the sump and check out the bearings.

i've already tried the two batteries!!

Actually I don't know about throwing a rod, i could throw the whole car!!!!!!

Cheers

Chris

Also make sure the bearing caps are not mixed up and the right way around.When i worked in the motor trade for a machine shop it was supprising how many people just threw the bottom end together and then complained that we had not ground the crank correctly because it would not turn.
Paul

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Chris,

if you rebuilt it yourself, have you had the main bearing caps off? It's possible you could have got the thrust washers in incorrectly (seized a pinto once doing this. Fortunately, the engine was still on the stand at the time).

Whatever you do, don't just rev the nutsack off it if it does start, you'll just throw a rod that way......

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Thanks to all for your input,

I'm going to replace the block

Bet the B*st*rd still won't start!!!!

Cheers

Chris

Johnston wrote:

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instead of the new short motor why dont u get it reborred by a few more thou

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If it was actually bored to tight it would only be by a thou or two,and the only way would be to hone the extra metal out. The problem is it takes ages to hone out a thou as the hone only really removes the machining marks or high spots. Once the bore is a smooth honed finish it is difficult to enlarge it much further.
The best idea would be to undo the conrods and check the fit of the crank and pistons.
Was the block bored to suit the pistons or just to a nominal oversize? we used to insist on having the pistons to measure before we would bore a block as they do vary sometines from the nominal size.

Paul.

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Johnston wrote:

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instead of the new short motor why dont u get it reborred by a few more thou

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Just out of interest- about how much does this cost?

A littel O/T I know- sorry.

Cheers,

James

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Hi All
When I had my 1600 XF enlarged to 1700 it was £10 per pot + vat. I took him the pistons though to make sure of the sizes.
Chris PTM

Well Chaps,

That's it!!!!

It ran for 30 seconds then seized solid.

It's well and truly f'd

never mind, new block coming, thanks for all you help,

Cheers

Chris

Thatlll teach you for listening to all the crap advice on here!

Genuine comisserations BTW.

I rebuilt a metro turbo engine once, over many weekends at my then workplace. Spent 500 quid just on parts and machining. When putting it back together, one of the valves dropped on the floor about 3 feet. Slid nicely in the guides, so no harm done.

Took the completed car down the road for a drive. After 2 miles, loss of power and big missfire. One cyl not working.

Limp back, let it cool down, all is well for another 2 miles.

Friggin valve was a tad bent, just enought to grip when hot. Luckily, people that did the engine work thought they hadnt fitted the guides right as there was an impossibly tight tolerance on the guides. But at the time it felt like the end of the world.

You will get through it. There is light at the end of the tunnel. There will be blubirds over the white cliffs of dover.

and bits of shattered engine all over your garage.

now, feel better

atb

steve

Thanks for that Steve,

I've already stripped the ancillaries off the engine and the blocks coming out as soon as I can borrow a crane, I'm going to take it apart - I need to know what went wrong.

Cheers

Chris

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Thatlll teach you for listening to all the crap advice on here!

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Whatever you do, don't just rev the nutsack off it if it does start, you'll just throw a rod that way......

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Thanks Dave!

It's good that you didn't say "I told you so" - oh wait you did!!!

Turns out that the oil pump drive shaft had sheared.

No oil = broken engine

Didn't throw a rod tho!!

Cheers

Chris

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We've all done stupid things in the past (even me. Yep. I did something so incredibly stupid once, I've never lived it down yet).

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I've had similar problems in the past. I would suggest try the following order;
1. take the fuel line off the carb and put into a jar switch the ignition on , then you can eliminate fuel pipes ,pump, pickup etc. Air leaks cheak all joints especially the inlet manufold, with thin rubber gloves run your hand round the maifold any leak will suck the rubber in. You have checked out the ignition, so the other thing is timming - sounds daft but I once new of a cam shaft fitted 180 degrees out engin ran 10 15 seconds then died but with no damage. Have you checked that the valves arn't stuck open or burnt out and the last thing I can think of have you got compression.

Paul

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Thatlll teach you for listening to all the crap advice on here!

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Actually i was kinda referring to the several posts that I put in to help.

atb

steve

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