MakeEverything
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 posted on 24/7/09 at 03:27 PM |
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Boost Question
I have a question...
If i were to put a turbo onto an MX5 engine, would i need to change the ECU, or would this compensate the fuel delivery and ignition automatically?
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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omega0684
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 03:31 PM |
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i would imagine the ecu would need a re-map
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 03:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
i would imagine the ecu would need a re-map
Ok, so MS would be the way forward then?
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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omega0684
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 04:31 PM |
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not sure how MS works with rotary engines but im sure your questions would be answered by phil @ extraefi.co.uk i'll u2u his e-mail to you if
you want
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 05:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
not sure how MS works with rotary engines but im sure your questions would be answered by phil @ extraefi.co.uk i'll u2u his e-mail to you if
you want
Ok Thanks, ill give him a shout.
The Rotary engine is in the RX7 / RX8. The MX5 is a twin cam (1.8 in my case).
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 05:11 PM |
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if you can find somebody with the software/capability to remap the ecu then intheory you shouldnt have to change anything .
most fuel systems are capable of more , because the manufacturer would leave some headroom . it really depends on how it works .
geff at re:worx deals with lots of mazda stuff - you might be able to get a cheap piggyback computer to do it with , hes also got a rolling road too .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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t16turbotone
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 06:03 PM |
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do you plan on lowering the compression ratio?
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ss1turbo
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 06:59 PM |
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Wasn't there a supercharged MX-5 kit around some years ago? I think there wasn't a lot done to the engine for a low boost application
(5psi or so) - but given the time it was, there's probably the word "Superchip" in there somewhere!
Long live RWD...
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Antnicuk
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 07:09 PM |
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have a look at Mazda on Track, I did a track day with them at cadwell last month, most of the mx5's were super/turbo charged.
Reworx can reflash a lot of ecu's now and they have a rolling road, you may need larger injectors and a better fuel pump, but you could probably
use rx7 stuff as they are already sized to give 280 bhp. That should be it for a low boost power application.
O
600 BHP per ton, Stylus Brought back from the dead! Turbo Rotary Powered!
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 07:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ss1turbo
Wasn't there a supercharged MX-5 kit around some years ago? I think there wasn't a lot done to the engine for a low boost application
(5psi or so) - but given the time it was, there's probably the word "Superchip" in there somewhere!
No, ive discovered that apparently the early Mk1 1800 steel block (standard engine) will take 40psi of boost before needing additional work.
There was a supercharger conversion (2 in fact) one of which uses the MS-PNP solution from the states, the other i cant seem to find out if it uses
additional ECU, puggyback boards or otherwise.
Apparently, the standard ECU is mapped to provide optimal power from the standard engine, but as it has MAF sensors etc, i was wondering if it would
auto-tune / advance if a turbo were added.
No decompression necessary for what i want, and i wont be running any more than 40psi!
On a standard engine and turbo, the best ive seen (read) that someone has achieved is 240bhp.... allegedly. Good enough for me! If i can prove it,
ill sell the dutton and buy my mates MX5 from him.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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prawnabie
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 07:24 PM |
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Surely the map sensor in the manifold will be calibrated to read a vaccum, and you would need one to read a positive figure witha turbo?
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 07:34 PM |
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MAP =Mass Air Pressure
MAF= Mass Air Flow
The MX5 im looking at has MAF which calculates the amount of air and adds the appropriate amount of fuel.
MAP is more accurate for blown engines though, as it reads the pressure (Positive or negative) and injects fuel appropriately.
Both have different calculations for doing this.
The question i have is wether the ECU will automatically compensate for the increased air intake.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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jpindy3
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 07:38 PM |
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i think it will be easyer to get a megasqurt map,and get a cosworth fuel pump,you might have to get bigger injectors
[Edited on 24/7/09 by jpindy3]
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ss1turbo
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 07:39 PM |
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quote:
The question i have is wether the ECU will automatically compensate for the increased air intake.
Yes..up to a point (depending on where the stock map finishes). There is also the second issue - under boost conditions, you may want to have it a
little richer than on an NA engine though..
Not sure what the compression ratio is as standard, but it won't take many psi of boost to start the onset of detonation - and thats bad!
Long live RWD...
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jpindy3
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 08:25 PM |
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you will have to lower the cr if its over 9,then you will have to get the ecu remaped if you can do this you will need to find a way of retarding the
ignition when your on boost,micro dynamics do somthing for that,and you will need a uprated fuel pump.
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Canada EH!
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 09:10 PM |
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Be careful with unfo from the USofA, most of those cars go 1/4 of a mile at a time, then rest for an hour or so.
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prawnabie
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 09:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
MAP =Mass Air Pressure
MAF= Mass Air Flow
The MX5 im looking at has MAF which calculates the amount of air and adds the appropriate amount of fuel.
MAP is more accurate for blown engines though, as it reads the pressure (Positive or negative) and injects fuel appropriately.
Both have different calculations for doing this.
The question i have is wether the ECU will automatically compensate for the increased air intake.
:
MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure 
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 09:57 PM |
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if its a MAF - a corresponding increase in AMM size with injectors raises the point where the AMM cuts out - generally doing this normally advances
the timing a little bit .
im doing this on my volvo with 9.3:1 CR - larger injectors and AMM , means more airflow/boost can be had on the stock ecu , its a common trick . it
was turboed before that tho so you ll have to listen for ping/det quite a lot , also ther emay be som epin outs on the ecu which advance/retard the
timing for differing fuel qualities , well worth checking if that can be done . on the bosch EZK system you can ground pins to get upto +/- 9 degrees
static advance .
a custom mapped scenario will always be better tho .
i do have to ask one question tho - are you sure these engines can take 40 psi boost ? , because in a 1.8 litre that probably would equate to 5/600 hp
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www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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jpindy3
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| posted on 24/7/09 at 10:11 PM |
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no way are you running any where near 40psi boost,thats nearly 3bar of boost,on std cr i dont think so,a full cossie will run 30psi and thats
600bhp.
id say std engine 5-8psi max,with out lowering the cr on cast pistons you wont be able to go any higher with out melting a hole in one.
my new cossie is going to run up to 14psi and thats 270bhp
[Edited on 24/7/09 by jpindy3]
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 25/7/09 at 09:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jpindy3
no way are you running any where near 40psi boost,thats nearly 3bar of boost,on std cr i dont think so,a full cossie will run 30psi and thats
600bhp.
id say std engine 5-8psi max,with out lowering the cr on cast pistons you wont be able to go any higher with out melting a hole in one.
my new cossie is going to run up to 14psi and thats 270bhp
[Edited on 24/7/09 by jpindy3]
I didnt say im running 40 psi, just that its information that ive found which needs to be verified - hence my questions here.
I cant remember where it came from now though.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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