turnipfarmer
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 01:55 PM |
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ECU help wanted
Apologies in advance if this isn't the right forum for this question. And yes... I have trawled around endlessly but can't find a
definitive answer to this...
I want to put a 2.0 blacktop into a 7-style. The engine will either be a crate job, or come from a scrappie. Either way it's not going to have
an ECU with it. I'll also be using a standard aftermarket loom & (at some point) an aftermarket immobiliser
To get round Ford's immobiliser etc wiring problems, I believe I'll need a non-PATS ECU from that well-known firm of solicitors DESK,
DALE, DEWY and DEEP.
So... assuming I get one of these units and hook it into the main loom, will the engine start without my having to do anything else (assuming I add
electricity & fuel!)
Will ANY of these ECU's work, or does it have to be a specific one (eg to match the engine age, capacity, whatever). And if it's a crate
engine, how would I know that?
Please don't get too technical with me... we've only just discovered electricity in these parts!
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eddie99
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 02:37 PM |
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Send a U2U to big_wasa, he knows everything about this subject!
http://www.elitemotorsporteng.co.uk/
Twitter: @Elitemotoreng
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Elite-Motorsport-Engineering/153409081394323
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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turnipfarmer
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 02:48 PM |
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u2u sent as suggested... ta!
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big_wasa
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 07:28 PM |
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Yep got your u2u
As this comes up most weeks. I will reply here.
First point to note.
You can NOT bypass the Ford immobilizer with out some expensive equipment. It is thatcham aproved for a reason.
You can use the pre Pats ecu but they are now rare and sort after by the mondeo rod banger racers for there higher rev limit than the esc setup.
There is no reason why you cant use the immobilizer  its just four wires to the transceiver / aerial.
If using the Pats ecu then you will need at least one matching Rdif chip found in the keys.
An ecu with matching keys and ignition barrel is even better as it fits the sierra column.
You will need an engine loom, this is seperate to the main loom on a Mondeo.
You will need an aerial and plug from around the ignition barrel. These are not paired to the ecu but changed in there function but not how they look
after 99 so get one from the same age as the ecu.
After 97 they used Obd2 diagnostics so an obd2 plug will be needed if you want this function. This is great as you can plug a laptop in and look at
what your engine is upto aswell as any fault codes.
Depending on age there are a couple of sensors that arnt in the engine loom and you will need to source the plugs if you want the function. It will
run fine with out some sensors but not others.
Mine first start after going efi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKqeCjdBM0w
A quick drive after fitting the exhaust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJnjKYHX3TE
The first one I did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxq4ks2Us_U
Ive done a few others one of which ive seen through Iva passing with flying colours. This was a 97 ecu on a 99 engine that hadnt even been serviced,
it still hasnt lol. I wired it up and it passed !
If you do a search on my user name you will find plenty of posts.
If you have the harware I will even do the wiring for a fee  see
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=145397
I am a big fan of this set up. It goes so much better than my weber 45's. You wire it up and thats it, away you go.
It starts and idles on the key.
It pulls really well.
It needs no tuning and no expensive rolling road sesions.
It will give better mpg than carbs and even Tb's on a cruder ecu.
To sum up.
Ive done a jenvey/ omex installs for locall guys. On the ecu side thats £600 for the ecu and £75 for the part loom. A few beers for me to install it
and he is now on the third rolling road session at around £300 a pop. Flat out it makes great power but in the reall world stuck in traffic in town
its a pig to drive and hence more goes on th RR
So thats a good £1700 with out his jenveys.
Mine, cost about £50 in ecu bits and drives so much better around town. The only down side is mine is down on power by about 15bhp. But this is locost
land
You will get plenty of people that say you need a megasquirt I disagree  with the exhaust and inlet mods you should be making 150bhp a touch more
with a chip. The 2.0 zetec isnt good for much more than 165 bhp with out head porting and cams even with jenveys and omex( other brands are available
).
Hope that helps 
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turnipfarmer
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 01:47 PM |
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Many thanks for that info... a great help.
Just so's you know, I'm definitely NOT going the aftermarket ECU/throttle bodies route, or carbs either come to that. It's going to
be standard Zetec everything.
The only thing I'll be doing to the engine is swapping the plastic inlet manifold for something like a Westfield/Griffin type plenum so I can
use the standard Zetec throttle body & injectors & still get it under the bonnet!
I'm not after all-out power, I just want something simple, that'll work & will be driveable around town in the manner you describe.
RR sessions are a big no-no as well.
When I talked about the loom, I was referring to the engine loom & not the main loom - sorry I didn't make that clear.
Still a few questions if I may...
Pre-PATS ECU's are still around. If I can get one of these, would it make the job simpler than if I used a PATS one? Am I right in thinking I
wouldn't then need anything else, & that ANY pre-PATS ECU would do, regardless of what it came off?
If I go the PATS ECU route, I understand I would need all the gubbins you mention, but this is what I'm trying to avoid if I possibly can. If I
have to, then OK. But my concern is knowing which one to get if, for instance, I decide to buy a crate engine. How can I be sure the two are
compatible? What year is/was the crate engine? Does it have an engine number? Will it only work with certain ECU's, and if so, which ones? How
do I find out? Etc etc etc.
The same applies to used engines that don't come with an ECU.
It's these questions that concern me most. Hope you can help.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 05:45 PM |
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You will want an ecu from a manual as it does make a differance. Again you will also want one for the same size engine as your using. eg 2.0-1.8-1.6
ect.
Pre pats is a 64 pin ecu and there is plenty of info on the net. I still say a 93~94 ecu is not easy to get these days.
A new zetec wont have an engine number but does come with a letter to help you register it.
the ecu dosnt see the age of your engine it just see's sensor inputs. You may need silver top sensors for a black top engine.
The plugs are differant and so are some of the sensors. If you get the full engine loom along with the injector loom and the sensors + Tb it will run
your black top fine.
[Edited on 24/11/10 by big_wasa]
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